aftermarket EFI tuning - Page 3 - Lateral-g Forums

**XcYZ** · #21 04-13-2005, 05:47 PM

My motor will also be my first stab at aftermarket EFI. I'm going with BS3 as well. I'm looking forward to learning to how to set it up and tune it, although I know there's going to be some headaches involved.

**camcojb** · #22 04-13-2005, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIL QIK

Jody........

How long do you think it'll be before you have the chance to try out the BS3. I think I'm about ready to upgrade..........But want to move on to the easiest and friendliest system out there. Looking at the software......would you say it's easier than the Fast.......Ya'll already tallked me out of the Accel 7.0

..........and I've heard a lot of good things about the Fast.......but I figure since BS3 was created by the same person.......maybe he made it even easier.........

Any opinion?

It's going to be 2-3 months I'd guess. I have spoken with a couple friends who've tuned it and said it's easy. I do know it has a much faster processor and better resolution than the FAST, which is a nice unit in itself.

Jody

Blown353 · #23 04-13-2005, 11:32 PM

Jody, you can let me borrow your BS3, I'll install it and get it all figured out by the time you're ready for it.

The problem will be getting it back from me!

My FAST is working just dandy. I'll probably wait another generation before I consider upgrading. Right now I consider the newest units out there (BS3 and FAST EFX) to be "incremental upgrades"; i.e. small improvements here and there but no major compelling reason to yank mine out.

I will admit though the WB02 "self tuning" fuel maps offered by the new units will save a LOT of time tuning, especially for someone who hasn't done anything like that before. They won't save your motor if you command a 30% VE at 6700 rpm and 20 psi of boost, but it will sure make it nice and easy for the final tweaks.

It will definately take more time to tune a turbo motor since it can run in a LOT more areas of the map; i.e. low rpm with high boost, such as a heavy load in overdrive. Since boost will be relative to engine load you'll be tuning cells you wouldn't normally get to with any other engine, and my guess is you'll really have to pay attention to the high boost / low rpm areas (i.e. stabbing it in overdrive) and watch the timing to keep detonation away.

Nothing difficult/impossible, just more time consuming since turbos "open up" a lot of areas on the map that most other engine combos will never operate in.

Y-TRY · #24 04-18-2005, 03:17 PM

It looks like I'll be switching over to EFI sooner than later. Tuning the blow-thru/turbo set-up is even more difficult than I had thought, and I may have already burned a hole in one of my pistons for lack of even distribution.

What EFI intakes and throttle bodies are you guys using for turbo applications? I can't afford a Hogan's so I'm looking at something like the Accel Pro-Ram. Any suggestions here?

Also- When converting to C.O.P- how tough are the OEM packs? Will they be able to withstand the heat from the turbos? I mean, it gets REALLY hot in there.

**XcYZ** · #25 04-18-2005, 05:26 PM

Have you thought about having your intake converted and running a 4150 4 barrel style throttle body? That's the direction I'm going. Jim Hall (Ummgawa) had his done at Force-EFI, and that's who's doing my conversion as well.

Just a thought, not sure if you're dead-set on a TPI type intake.

Blown353 · #26 04-18-2005, 10:10 PM

A single plane with a throttle body would work just fine for a turbo app, as would the holley stealth ram if you want a different look.

The Accel Pro-Ram is a nice manifold; for a while Don had it on his Procharged Camaro and it was a really nice looking and well thought out piece. All the hard stuff you normally have to weld on with a carb'd intake are already on there-- fuel rail hold down provisions cast into the manifold, tapped ports in the back of the plenum pad for sensors, injector bungs, etc.

The single plane/throttle body combo is more forgiving for plumbing as you can put a hat on it and point it whatever direction is easiest for your turbo plumbing, whereas if you go with the stealthram you're stuck with a throttle body up front.

While not turbocharged, I'm still boosted, and I'm using a hybrid manifold; the lower is a holley stealth ram, and the upper is sheetmetal with extended runners which helps built a LOT more torque. The guy who did my manfold did some dyno testing and found that my style of intake (he builds slight variants based on the application) on a naturally aspirated motor is worth 70 ft/lbs more torque in the middle compared to a Victor Junior; now, consider that gain in torque and apply boost and you get a proportional gain. You could duplicate it or build something similar for about half the price of a Hogan's, but it's still not inexpensive.

I'd suggest something with longer runners to build lots of torque; since your turbos will be shoving air through the sucker the long runners won't become a top-end killer (a-la the GM TPI) at higher RPM. As far as readily available off the shelf intakes, I really like the Stealth Ram.

Speaking of burning a piston from mixture distribution, I think you'll find your carb bonnet is to blame. Most bonnets out there have HORRIBLE air distribution characteristics; I've heard of as much as staggering jets 10 sizes side to side to make up for the poor airflow characteristics of a given hat. There are only a couple good hats out there, and a LOT of bad ones.

Keep in mind if you run EFI with a single plane / throttle body and use a crappy hat, you may also have mixture problems cylinder to cylinder. Granted they'll all be fed the same amount of fuel at the port by the injector, but the amount of air each cylinder sees may be quite different! A good hat matters with EFI, too.

Y-TRY · #27 04-19-2005, 11:54 PM

Thanks for the replies. I also like the Pro-Ram for a single-plane type of intake. It's pretty much identical to my Bowtie intake, but with the EFI provisions already built-in. I could buy the Pro-Ram new for $375+/- or use my Bowtie and have Force-EFI convert it for $425+/-. Seems like a no-brainer.

Since you say the TPI style works good, I'll also look into something like that. Isn't the StealthRam similar to the TPIS MiniRam?

I do have a question, though: If I run the Pro-Ram, or similar, will there still be distribution issues if coupled to a TPI type of throttle body via an elbow? In the Pro-Ram scenario I was planning a 90-degree elbow and big TPI style TB. Will this help the distribution problem found with a hat?

I'll keep ya'll abreast of what happens with the engine. I left the car at my other house in Austin and will be back down there this weekend with tools. Cross your fingers for me!

**camcojb** · #28 04-20-2005, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y-TRY

Thanks for the replies. I also like the Pro-Ram for a single-plane type of intake. It's pretty much identical to my Bowtie intake, but with the EFI provisions already built-in. I could buy the Pro-Ram new for $375+/- or use my Bowtie and have Force-EFI convert it for $425+/-. Seems like a no-brainer.

Since you say the TPI style works good, I'll also look into something like that. Isn't the StealthRam similar to the TPIS MiniRam?

I do have a question, though: If I run the Pro-Ram, or similar, will there still be distribution issues if coupled to a TPI type of throttle body via an elbow? In the Pro-Ram scenario I was planning a 90-degree elbow and big TPI style TB. Will this help the distribution problem found with a hat?

I'll keep ya'll abreast of what happens with the engine. I left the car at my other house in Austin and will be back down there this weekend with tools. Cross your fingers for me!

For $375. I do not believe you get the fuel rails, which are included with the Force conversion. They get $150+ for those I believe.

I like the 90 degree elbow and monoblade throttle body; works great, looks unique, and eliminates the hat altogether.

Jody

**XcYZ** · #29 04-20-2005, 07:07 AM

I stumbled across this, it reminded me of the mono-blade with the 90* elbow you had on the Yellow car, Jody. I don't think I've ever seen this setup before...

Y-TRY · #30 04-22-2005, 11:11 AM

That's the type of intake/ TB / elbow set-up I'm thinking about. Since the Force-EFI conversion includes rails, I may go that route. Thanks for the info, Jody.

Do you think Mr. Meaney would be willing to set-up a base tune on the BS3 for us like-minded turbo people? I emailed a question to BS3 and he personally responded. I was quite impressed. He referred my question to Rad Rides. It's kinda intimidating talking to such legends.