So this business owes me money....

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by Fluid Power

Let me make one thing clear. I would not piss on this guy if he was on fire.

Well that changes the rules of engagement just a little.

[Rybar]

Originally Posted by Flash68

That's certainly one way to deal with things, but that's not the way I want to do business. I want to respect and enjoy the relationships we have. This goes back to account diversification and if you can afford to drop those types of adversarial clients, all the better.

I have a friend who used to be a large client 3 years ago until his business went bad. He still owes me well into 6 figures (the reason I had to sell my last Camaro) but he has the willingness to pay and I expect I will get paid back every dime but it may take a few years. He has already paid 1/3 of the debt and is clawing his way back. Due to his willingness to pay, he stayed in business when most would have filed BK.

Good discussion here.

If your talking about respect, your client definitely does not respect you owing you 6 figures. Same with the OP Poster being owed $60k. I don't see anywhere where that is a form of respect. You guys are respecting them sending them product and not being paid for long terms. Respect in business is paying your damn bills and only ordering what you can afford to pay for. Again, this is My opinion.

[pokey64]

I've had some luck with discounts for lump sum payments on past due accounts. But you are right, if he don't have the 60k then he probably don't have 40… Every customer is different and you need a few options to pull from.

Since the COD business with this guy is "worthwhile" push for a payment plan that gets him paid up in a year. That'd be $5000 in addition to the COD orders each month. Basically you’re reducing his credit limit $5k/month. Grant him a reduced interest rate or some kind of discount for sticking with the plan. You'll have to keep pushing every month or he won’t stick with it. Of course he may start favoring a different vendor depending on what they let him get away with.

Make sure your people have no grey area with his credit limit/terms. I went to a pre-bankruptcy mediation one time for a customer who owed us $9000. The owner of another company was there and had just survived treatment for brain cancer. While he was away from the business his staff let the customer get into them for $250,000. And then we listened to the bank make it clear there wasn't going to be anything leftover for us unsecured vendors when they were done with him...

I agree with Greg that willingness is a factor. I’ll work with someone that makes an effort to send some dollar amount each month towards the old. We had one guy that always kept a $20k recurring balance. He paid just enough each month to cover his new purchases. It always pissed me off when I heard people say he owned all kinds of land and has a new piece of equipment or pickup on the yard every time they visited. Basically we were carrying his balance because he was a lazy bookkeeper.


Good luck!

[NAPA 68]

In my line of business, I do not have an account that maintains a balance as large as what you are speaking of. I will share some experience none the less.
It seems as the customer is abusing and ignoring the past due balance and the privlige of an open account. What if this guy bounces a check for a COD purchase? What if he files bankruptcy? Still think you can afford to do business with him? IMO, you are really exposing yourself to a financial risk.

Is there any tax liens or judgments on him? (sales tax, estimated taxes, property taxes both personal and corporate) You may never be towards the front of the line to get paid. My policy.......................30 days past due=discussion. 45 days=COD. 90 days=no business at all. I lock the account. (these terms are typical in my line of work)

As some have said,you do not want to piss the guy off. But, where are you going by being a laid back nice guy? As long as you allow yourself to be a doormat, you will be a doormat.

[GregWeld]

When I used to have to deal with accounts I didn't like --- I used to tell myself "there's only one way to get even with him --- sell him something!"

I used to have a customer down in Portland, Oregon and he was a big deal in the biz - but not for me - yet he demanded "exclusivity". He wanted exclusivity because he wanted to retail at HUGE margins... and didn't want to be "shopped". My comment to him was -- look bonehead -- I'm going to do 3 mill in this area - if you want exclusivity - give me orders that will get me there... otherwise drop dead. Long and short -- I finally just opened other dealers around him -- gave them smokin' deals -- worked my butt off for them - coached them -- and just absolutely killed this guy.

At a trade show in Chicago he came into our showroom and was literally slathering he was so mad at me.... I (being the butthead I am) just laughed at him -- and reminded him of my "deal" with him... and that I too am running a business, and that my business is just as important to ME as his is to him.... I think that finally made him see the light. We agreed to let him have certain colors (not the hottest ones!) and or groups but not "the line".... and he ended up being one of my best customers and we had genuine respect for each other.

Dave's story about being owed by a guy that has the "willingness" is what I was talking about ---- a guy that is willing to pay -- can turn it around but you won't know that until HE SHOWS YOU HE IS... If not - bury his sorry butt.

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

I agree -- it's a very fine line -- but if the customer has the willingness to make things right - regardless of how long that takes (payment plan of some type) you eventually end up with getting your money back - or some of your money back. Otherwise it's a ZERO. AND you lose a customer. If the customer has the willingness to get caught up - then it's a win win (except for the loss of interest / carrying costs on the past due).

I found I could "live with" a guy that was a good guy -- and tried to do the right thing.... over a guy that just stiffed me.

We all know that unsecured creditors wind up getting zip in lawsuits. So that's a zero.

Darren, Greg is spot on with what he said!

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by Rybar

If your talking about respect, your client definitely does not respect you owing you 6 figures. Same with the OP Poster being owed $60k. I don't see anywhere where that is a form of respect. You guys are respecting them sending them product and not being paid for long terms. Respect in business is paying your damn bills and only ordering what you can afford to pay for. Again, this is My opinion.

Sorry, but you don't have all the details, Ryan. And this isn't the time or place for me to provide all of them.

Originally Posted by GregWeld

When I used to have to deal with accounts I didn't like --- I used to tell myself "there's only one way to get even with him --- sell him something!"

I used to have a customer down in Portland, Oregon and he was a big deal in the biz - but not for me - yet he demanded "exclusivity". He wanted exclusivity because he wanted to retail at HUGE margins... and didn't want to be "shopped". My comment to him was -- look bonehead -- I'm going to do 3 mill in this area - if you want exclusivity - give me orders that will get me there... otherwise drop dead. Long and short -- I finally just opened other dealers around him -- gave them smokin' deals -- worked my butt off for them - coached them -- and just absolutely killed this guy.

At a trade show in Chicago he came into our showroom and was literally slathering he was so mad at me.... I (being the butthead I am) just laughed at him -- and reminded him of my "deal" with him... and that I too am running a business, and that my business is just as important to ME as his is to him.... I think that finally made him see the light. We agreed to let him have certain colors (not the hottest ones!) and or groups but not "the line".... and he ended up being one of my best customers and we had genuine respect for each other.

Dave's story about being owed by a guy that has the "willingness" is what I was talking about ---- a guy that is willing to pay -- can turn it around but you won't know that until HE SHOWS YOU HE IS... If not - bury his sorry butt.

Greg makes another good point about business in general. Every man is out for himself, his family, his own success and for his team or employees. Managing cash flow is a survival tool and it can be used properly and effectively, and it can be used inappropriately (ethically and legally) and irresponsibly. (Sorry, that's too many adverbs in a row )

I believed 3 years ago and I still believe today that without his willingness, I would have filed against him and it would have pushed him over the edge to BK... and then I get nothing. Even if I get only what I have already received over the past 3 years and not a penny more, I still got a lot more than zero.

I've found that usually the people who are quick to tell you to file a lawsuit are the ones who have zero experience on either side of one.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Flash68

I've found that usually the people who are quick to tell you to file a lawsuit are the ones who have zero experience on either side of one.

A truer word was never spoken!

About 3 years ago I lost half a million in a start up company due to idiots at the helm.... long and short of it is, I took everything I had to our attorneys -- and 50 grand later -- they thought I had a case to sue the board of directors.... a quarter million dollars later thru mandatory mediation -- I got a quarter million dollar settlement. So that all took at least a year and a half - the board had Directors and Officers insurance so you're really suing the insurance company and they have endless amounts to defend.... and had I not settled (took 9 hours in mediation) I probably would have spent another quarter million in trial. Since it wasn't fraudulent - there was no penalty - so the most I could get was my original investment back -- and MAYBE legal costs but probably not... so at some point it's "what's the point"? I wanted to have a judgement against the officers so that if they were to be asked to sit on another board - they'd have to disclose that they'd be sued and had a judgement. So I was willing to spend the money just to piss them off. But I'm mean like that!

So that "just sue them" talk is mostly just that -- big talk.

[71camaroz27]

I have done this in the past with guys that I have had to put on COD.
Tell the guy that you are going to raise his prices 10%, and keep track of his debt. Send him an email after each sale, and tell him how much he owes.

Hey "Bob" after this shipment, you only owe me $57,000.
Hey "Bob" after this order you only owe me $51,000.

Worked for me. He is now all paid up.

[Tony_SS]

Originally Posted by 71camaroz27

I have done this in the past with guys that I have had to put on COD.
Tell the guy that you are going to raise his prices 10%, and keep track of his debt. Send him an email after each sale, and tell him how much he owes.

Hey "Bob" after this shipment, you only owe me $57,000.
Hey "Bob" after this order you only owe me $51,000.

Worked for me. He is now all paid up.

I think that's good advice.