1969 Camaro Project questions

[ironworks]

Originally Posted by cjsgarage

Rodger, Blake: I admit that the numbers are low. There Re no doubt ancillary items that tag along. I usually like to redo the engine harness myself. That alone usually takes 16 hours to lay, sheath and cut to length/recrimp the ends.

I think that if you want it perfect, it's a billable hours deal. But I'm think I was more like Todd's answer in that this would get it set on the ground. It no doubt needs probably another two and a half weeks of work for rear end set up/driveshaft angles, underbody coatings or prep/paint, front end wiring, dash wiring, cage prep and paint, blah blah blah. Maybe more than two and a half weeks. I've never gotten a build of that scope done sooner than six months.

And I also tend to give stuff away. I guess I don't FEEL like it should take 32 hours to fit front sheet metal.. Even though I really did work at it for 32 hours--straight. Perhaps that's why I closed.
But I do work with a hustle, and did close my shop. Maybe I'll apply for work at Ironworks and Speedtech!! Well, now that I've kicked myself out the door, maybe not..

Yeap - it shouldn't take 32 hours until it really does.

Chip Foose can build cars on TV in a week right?

[cjsgarage]

Freakin-A, he can!!! Ass Monkey can, too!

Tv shows make it really hard to build cars for people. A runner driver that looks like it drove out of the factory is not that hard to put together, I guess. But I never want it to look like the factory. I want it to have hidden wires. I want it to have the hose clamps hidden. I want it to have the coolant and a/c hoses tucked. I want the extra stuff removed. I want the firewall plate to have the same curves as the factory stamps do. And I want my customers to want the same thing. The Fairway 55 and fairway 70 aren't 150 hour cars.. That's for sure.


I feel like an ass lookin back over some of the times I put up. Sorry guys. I guess I should keep my fingers off the keyboard after midnight.

[MaxHarvard]

I have personally done virtually everything on your list and while I'm not an overly experienced mechanic/shop owner, I can that that list is quite extensive and will take several months at best. I gave myself a year to do all of those things and I had all the parts ready for me!

Even if you had one dedicated tech on it for 40hrs a week (which they won't) it will be 3-4 months easily.

Example... Mini tubs look sooooo easy right? Minimum 40hrs of labor for a competent tech, longer if they do it 'nice'.

Let's not forget that once everything is nicely finished, guess what? Add another 20+ hours into making sure everything actually works. It just doesn't plug-in and bingo-bango, magic! The engine will need tuning, AC will need to be charged and tested, suspension will need adjusting and fine tuning, then suddenly someone will notice that the dome light doesn't work... Now, that can be a 4-5 hour job if a wiring problem occurs and you need to remove pieces.

This isn't a big jigsaw puzzle that neatly fits together and you're done. Just because the description says it will fit a Camaro, doesn't mean it will right out of the box. I can't tell you how many hours I've had to modify parts to get them to fit just right. Is that a bad design? Hell no! That's the world of custom cars. That's hot rodding... and time.

I've been around long enough in the custom car world to know that whatever estimate you get... Instantly double it for time and cost. That's just how it goes.

[Smittys67]

1 Most good shops are labor X hours + materials

2 No Reputable Shop has that short of a wait for a job of this size.

3 Do more homework on shops. There is a massive difference between quality and zip screws and duct tape.


Roger, Greg and Blake thanks for the good advice.

[will69camaro]

What shop is it?

[Lous69]

I think there is a lot of good advice here already but one thing seems to be missing.

No matter who is quoting you what, You should ask for a list of their previous customers and talk to those people directly. The price of parts and labor is just a part of your actual customer experience.

The proof of what kind of shop you are talking to is probably best learned by talking to their customers. Of course, you could argue they will only provide you with a list of satisfied customers but hey, that is what you hope to be too, right?

Talk to those previous customers to see what led to their happiness and then honestly ask yourself if you are that kind of customer or not.

If it is one of the better known shops it shouldn't be hard to find some of their previous customers on your own.

The other thing I would investigate is whether or not the actual people who built the cars for the customers you talk to are still at the shop or not. Some shops are constantly replacing their workers and others have a very stable workforce. It would be hard to be assured of a similar positive experience if your work will actually be done by different people.

[Che70velle]

First of all, I HATE threads like this one....gives our hobby a bad taste in people's mouth when they realize what this actually costs, and how long it takes.
There are a zillion shops out there that will tell you what you want to hear to get you in the door. I read a lot of threads/articles about the guy who had big dreams of owning a "top notch" pro touring build. He did a LITTLE research of shops in his area, and picked one. Loaded up his car and dropped it off at the shop. The shop owner promised him a totally undoable time line, while at the same time received a large down payment from the car owner. Days turn into weeks, weeks turn into months, you get the picture, and very little is happening to the vehicle. Car owner gets frustrated, and demands results. Shop moves car into staging area and stuff happens, but it's not fast enough. Shop owner blames vendors, and the next post, or part of the article tells how the angry car owner pulled his project that is now partially disassembled out, and didn't get the earnest money back. The entire process gave the car owner a bad taste of our hobby, and it all goes up for sale. DONT BE THAT GUY!
Don't settle for a shop that promises to get you in line next, at a half price rate. If they can do that, then you don't want them ANYWHERE NEAR your car.
To state that the shop your looking at "is just as reputable as DSE" is a big statement. They do exist, but they also are all backed up for a year, and for a good reason.
Your willing to spend $50k on parts, you better be willing to spend $50k on labor. It's just the way it is. And if it takes the shop a year, so be it.
This site alone contains many builds that costed 6 digits to build.

[SSChef]

OP,
Honestly, I would start with your budget then see what can be done for that. If you are building over your means you will waste money on storage fees and money in the long run.

Shops that don't charge enough don't last. I know this first hand.

This type of work requires time. Anyone can slap an engine/trans in and call it a day. It has to be done correctly and that takes time.

I have been working with a few shop getting work done and you can tell which ones are experienced or not. The worst is getting into a shop that quotes low and then tries to come back later when they are over their heads asking for more money. Look at what they have in the shop and what has left the shop. A reputable shop should have a good portfolio on hand or on line.

good luck

[Vince@Meanstreets]

You will be north of 300 after we talk about plumbing and full vehicle wiring.

[Blake Foster]

Originally Posted by cjsgarage

But I do work with a hustle, and did close my shop. Maybe I'll apply for work at Ironworks and Speedtech!! Well, now that I've kicked myself out the door, maybe not..

I will pay you flat rate and probably double what you charged that guy lol
come on down