My customer EXPERIENCE with Driverz Inc.

[realcoray]

Originally Posted by jocko124

That's exactly correct. I asked for the widest wheel that would fit in the rear without having to modify the frame. I offered to measure (with help from Jon of course) but he said it was not necessary. Based on the fact that he's a pro-touring wheel expert and has "complied recommended fitments that we can suggest with 100% confidence" I took his word as gospel. If we all did not need a wheel expert to help us with this, Jon really would not have a viable business model would he?

Here's the issue: If my rear end has been modified in any fashion, I'm wrong and Jon is correct and could not possibly recommend a correct fitment for it when he thought it was stock. If it is stock, Jon is wrong in his assumption that all 66-67 A Bodies are the same with regards to wheel fitment and should stand behind his recommendation.
The second point is that I think his "it fits" comment is taking liberty with the word "fit". I asked him for the same thing every pro-touring customer wants: the widest wheel you can stuff in the rear. If you're telling me that all the Chevelles and Camaros he's building wheels for have 2" of room to the frame/rear wheel well then I stand corrected. If they are all much closer to his recommended .75" then he's wrong---simple as that.

It seems really weird you have so much space on the backside. I had a 68 chevelle which is admittedly a completely different fitment and I had a 17x11 on the back with less room than that and I always thought that the 66-67 A bodies were not able to take that much wheel/tire stock.

And I would hesitate to use space between the wheel and the frame or fender as a guideline of what is possible because the wheel moves. In particular the finger in the lip picture seems fine to me because of that curve. If the wheel was out more it would probably rub pretty hardcore if the car was actually driven.

[Steve1968LS2]

Originally Posted by jocko124

I on the other hand expect competent fitment advice for my 5 Grand--otherwise I wouldn't have wasted my time talking to Jon and would have gone directly to Forgeline.

They don't rub.. they look nice and the clearance doesn't seem out of line.. I would call that competent.

But, all these things are subjective of course.. except rubbing.. that's not subjective at all.

[jocko124]

Originally Posted by Steve1968LS2

They don't rub.. they look nice and the clearance doesn't seem out of line.. I would call that competent.

But, all these things are subjective of course.. except rubbing.. that's not subjective at all.

Hey Steve,

About how much articulation should I expect? i.e. What range would you guess? I need to take that into account before deciding which way to go.

[jocko124]

Originally Posted by realcoray

It seems really weird you have so much space on the backside. I had a 68 chevelle which is admittedly a completely different fitment and I had a 17x11 on the back with less room than that and I always thought that the 66-67 A bodies were not able to take that much wheel/tire stock.

And I would hesitate to use space between the wheel and the frame or fender as a guideline of what is possible because the wheel moves. In particular the finger in the lip picture seems fine to me because of that curve. If the wheel was out more it would probably rub pretty hardcore if the car was actually driven.

Point well taken. I think we're going back to the drawing board, actually measuring and going with the best option at that point.

[DRJDVM's '69]

From Driverz Inc stuff you posted..

For the widest wheel and tire option, please download our custom fitment form, and/or give us a call for technical assistance.


So basically you want a much bigger and wider rim and tire combo than what you ordered?

The placement and clearence for that size tire and wheel combo looks perfect to me..... only way to take up that "extra" space on the inside is to have a wider rim and tire combo.... the backspacing wont change that....narrowing the rear will, and give you a bit more clearence to the outer fender lip....

I did ALL the measuring on my wheels AFTER I bought the tires I wanted....

[rwhite692]

Originally Posted by DRJDVM's '69

From Driverz Inc stuff you posted..

For the widest wheel and tire option, please download our custom fitment form, and/or give us a call for technical assistance.


So basically you want a much bigger and wider rim and tire combo than what you ordered?

The placement and clearence for that size tire and wheel combo looks perfect to me..... only way to take up that "extra" space on the inside is to have a wider rim and tire combo.... the backspacing wont change that....narrowing the rear will, and give you a bit more clearence to the outer fender lip....

I did ALL the measuring on my wheels AFTER I bought the tires I wanted....

^^^^Exactly.

I have never bought any wheels through Jon, however have been here long enough to know that Jon provides excellent service and bends over backwards and ties his spine in knots, in order to service his customers. He has demonstrated this over and over and over again, and even supports his customers by taking care of their needs at the various driving events, etc.

You simply have unreasonable expectations. Your vehicle is not stock, so you should have not had any illusions that you could get away without actually taking any definitive measurements. And, in spite of this, Jon managed to give you a safe fitment that does not rub.

Anyone who has built a custom car with a modified suspension, and is trying to fill out their wheelwells to the max, knows damn well that measuring is absolutely necessary. I believe you know this, but you have decided to play "the poor uneducated customer", and float your case out to the community, in the hopes that folks will side with you, and somehow Jon will cave in, and widen your wheels so that you can get what you want, for free.

Well, I think I can speak for the majority of the community, when I say, that ain't gonna happen.

[Matt@BOS]

Originally Posted by rwhite692

^^^^Exactly.

I have never bought any wheels through Jon, however have been here long enough to know that Jon provides excellent service and bends over backwards and ties his spine in knots, in order to service his customers. He has demonstrated this over and over and over again, and even supports his customers by taking care of their needs at the various driving events, etc.

Your vehicle is not stock, so you should have not had any illusions that you could get away without actually taking any definitive measurements. And, in spite of this, Jon managed to give you a safe fitment that does not rub.

I pretty much agree with everything you've said there.

Lee, all factors considered, I think Jon did a good job. Your wheels don't rub. Could they be a bit closer to the frame rail? yes, in your case, they could - but don't go too much wider or you will start to rub when moving over angled drive ways, or under hard cornering. Who knows how these exact wheels would fit on an "identical" car to yours though.I learned, as I think most of us have, (and rather quickly I might add), that no two old cars are exactly alike. Cars in the 1960s weren't built with the same precision as today. After factoring in 40ish years, of use, abuse, and replacement of parts, all before we come to own our cars, it is amazing that bolt on parts today bolt on with only minor issues.

Funny story: I ordered a set of 18x9 wheels from Jon about three years ago for the front of my '69 Camaro with a DSE frame. Jon ordered the wheels according to DSE's specs. Turns out the wheel hit the control arms at full lock. Part of this might have been because my car sat really low. In any case, what had worked for everyone else with the same exact list of parts, didn't work for me. There are so many factors, that differentiate each car, ever so slightly, that we can only estimate so closely as to what will fit on all of them. Maybe it is just different perspectives, but I never once even thought of picking up the phone and asking Jon to re-hoop the wheels on his dime. In my opinion (and I'm not going to tell you that your opinion is invalid) issues like these are just one of the many costs of hot rodding.

Matt

[jocko124]

Originally Posted by rwhite692

^^^^Exactly.

You simply have unreasonable expectations. Your vehicle is not stock, so you should have not had any illusions that you could get away without actually taking any definitive measurements. And, in spite of this, Jon managed to give you a safe fitment that does not rub.

Anyone who has built a custom car with a modified suspension, and is trying to fill out their wheelwells to the max, knows damn well that measuring is absolutely necessary. I believe you know this, but you have decided to play "the poor uneducated customer", and float your case out to the community, in the hopes that folks will side with you, and somehow Jon will cave in, and widen your wheels so that you can get what you want, for free.

You have made two assumptions which are incorrect. 1) the car is not custom with a modified suspension---IT IS STOCK. 2) I really don't care if "folks side with me." I knew full well that once this went public any chance of Jon cooperating in any way with me would be zero--and obviously I'm really not too worried about losing out on his expertise. This post was made due to my frustration from receiving poor customer service from Jon from the word go and his negative attitude towards my concerns. As far as playing the "poor uneducated customer" that is exactly how this went down. I was relatively new to pro-touring when this all began and relied heavily on Jon. I will not be doing that again, and I hope after reading this post others new to the hobby, if they choose to order from Jon do so being fully informed.

[jocko124]

Originally Posted by 69MSA

I pretty much agree with everything you've said there.

Lee, all factors considered, I think Jon did a good job. Your wheels don't rub. Could they be a bit closer to the frame rail? yes, in your case, they could - but don't go too much wider or you will start to rub when moving over angled drive ways, or under hard cornering. Who knows how these exact wheels would fit on an "identical" car to yours though.I learned, as I think most of us have, (and rather quickly I might add), that no two old cars are exactly alike. Cars in the 1960s weren't built with the same precision as today. After factoring in 40ish years, of use, abuse, and replacement of parts, all before we come to own our cars, it is amazing that bolt on parts today bolt on with only minor issues.

Funny story: I ordered a set of 18x9 wheels from Jon about three years ago for the front of my '69 Camaro with a DSE frame. Jon ordered the wheels according to DSE's specs. Turns out the wheel hit the control arms at full lock. Part of this might have been because my car sat really low. In any case, what had worked for everyone else with the same exact list of parts, didn't work for me. There are so many factors, that differentiate each car, ever so slightly, that we can only estimate so closely as to what will fit on all of them. Maybe it is just different perspectives, but I never once even thought of picking up the phone and asking Jon to re-hoop the wheels on his dime. In my opinion (and I'm not going to tell you that your opinion is invalid) issues like these are just one of the many costs of hot rodding.

Matt

Thank you for the different perspective Matt.

[Fluid Power]

Originally Posted by z4me69

No offense to anybody here but if I'm spending 5 grand on wheels i'm the one measuring for the fit not someone else

DING DING WINNER!

MEASURE YOURSELF. Plain and simple. Recommendations are just that. Your Mileage May Vary.

FWIW, I do not know Jon, I have never ordered from his company. I just think your argument is invalid since you did not do any measuring at all. Really? Wow