Consensus on big bar/soft spring?

[chetly]

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal

Chetly, please man. Everybody knows Mike and loves him. We know you do too.

Making an argument in your favor by knocking another is simply deflection from the real issue being discussed. My high school girlfriend taught me that.

What are we fighting about, err discussing again?

I don't remember knocking anyone. Just stated some facts about what Mike is able to do with a so-called "autocross" setup.

[WSSix]

EDIT: Never mind. I'm staying out of it. Good luck OP. Take in lots of information and decide what works best for you.

[alwaysracin]

WOW, quick with Ron's forum attack dogs! I did not post the question to start an argument. Everyone needs to calm down. It was a simple question to Ron.



I am new to this group and asking about Ron's specific autox background. Did I bring up a touchy subject? I would not got to a proctologist to get my teeth cleaned but without checking the background you might end up there. I am asking because like myself Ron might have been sent to other states to help set up suspension on autocross cars. I have never seen him at local SCCA or AAS events locally, so I figured he might go out of state. How else are you going to learn a new form of racing without testing?

Rodney,
I agree a national title is not everything but it does take the small pond out of the mix. It does prove you have an idea about setup or someone who helps you does. You are incorrect about being a national champion because no one else is in the class. You would be a national winner not champion and would not get the national champion jacket.

Why are you not using his set up tips? (never mind, It doesn't matter)

Greg,
I am trying to keep this nice. Name calling is childish. It was a simple question.

Lance,
Cup races are circle track and very different than auto crossing. They do not have any quick transitions.

WS6,
Smart Move.

You can ask any local fast autoxer and most likely they are more than willing to help you. We all like the challenge and competition.

other than hearing from Ron. I am not reposting on this topic. I wrote to help but it wasn't taken as such


Ron,
I am still waiting. You always seem to duck out when asked a real question.


Scott Fraser

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by chetly

The OP specificly said he'd be running C prepared, or CP as I put it. So yeah, talking to anyone other than a 6 time national CP Champion is in my mind pointless.

Also, Mike took his "autocross" setup to Sears Point for the Shelby Nationals and was in the top 5 of times but was the only one in the top 5 on a 200tw tire. So, in my option autocross, road racing and street driving can all use the same suspension settings.

Wait... WHAT?? I was there.... The Shelby Mini Nats as they are called -- is NOT A RACE -- It's a fun event where for one session - anyone that cares to, can go out and "race".... This is totally GENTLEMAN racing -- not real racing... Nobody is going to take the other guys line - there's no fender bashing - it's for FUN.

Mike is a seriously fast guy -- I consider him and Brianne my friends. I have a Mustang and I wouldn't hesitate to call him for advice or parts. I have his parts on my car... and if I was AUTO CROSSING, and drove his style -- I'd copy him in a heartbeat.

I've sat in a room and listened to Mike and Hobaugh (super good buddies) go round and round about the way each other tunes their cars suspension... Both of them appears to be right --- FOR THEM. Mike likes his car one way - Hobaugh another... Doesn't make either of them right or wrong. Each can beat the other on any given day and have done so many times.

If I was the OP --- I'd certainly call Mike for his invaluable advice and stellar parts. But I wouldn't stop there. Different driving styles require different set ups... and sadly - since most of us aren't race car guys - we don't get the chance to drive many different set ups to know what is going to work for us. Some guys do really well with a real edgy set up. I'd wreck that in turn 2... I need a more forgiving set up that allows me to recover...

What's my point?? Don't be a one horse "this is the way it has to be" kinda guy... Talk to lots of people and try to find a suspension set up that works for you and your style, and what you want out of the car. Being closed minded and arguing about one way, or the highway, just shows ignorance. Be open and honest, learn and experiment.

[camcojb]

Well, this thread has sure gone sideways. Lets get back on topic and drop the personal shots. That doesn't fly here.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Yeah don't get this closed up you hell hounds. Play nice!!

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by alwaysracin

WOW, quick with Ron's forum attack dogs! I did not post the question to start an argument. Everyone needs to calm down. It was a simple question to Ron.



I am new to this group and asking about Ron's specific autox background. Did I bring up a touchy subject? I would not got to a proctologist to get my teeth cleaned but without checking the background you might end up there. I am asking because like myself Ron might have been sent to other states to help set up suspension on autocross cars. I have never seen him at local SCCA or AAS events locally, so I figured he might go out of state. How else are you going to learn a new form of racing without testing?

Rodney,
I agree a national title is not everything but it does take the small pond out of the mix. It does prove you have an idea about setup or someone who helps you does. You are incorrect about being a national champion because no one else is in the class. You would be a national winner not champion and would not get the national champion jacket.

Why are you not using his set up tips? (never mind, It doesn't matter)

Greg,
I am trying to keep this nice. Name calling is childish. It was a simple question.

Lance,
Cup races are circle track and very different than auto crossing. They do not have any quick transitions.

WS6,
Smart Move.

You can ask any local fast autoxer and most likely they are more than willing to help you. We all like the challenge and competition.

other than hearing from Ron. I am not reposting on this topic. I wrote to help but it wasn't taken as such


Ron,
I am still waiting. You always seem to duck out when asked a real question.


Scott Fraser

gonna leave this here. I'm sure he's busy doing something Scott. Ducking out? Rons attack dogs? We all show respect and respect each other. Someone has to remind the new guys that this is a community of friends and doesn't have to start with name calling, chest thumping and call outs. I for one don't have a g******* thing to prove to any one. Main goal in life is to provide for my family. Having fun with cars is a side effect.

[Rod P]

I am re-posting my answers because I believe they were lost in the scuttle

big bar/soft spring?


that choice is mostly decided from training and driving style..


for me...I run my 68 Camaro with 800 lb front springs and the DSE sway bar...my upper control arms pivot point has been moved from stock (modified Guldstrand) and that creates a jacking effect so essentially my car is in camber moment at all times...the lower control arm has the shock mount moved closer to the ball joint than standard arms....and the triple adjust front shocks i have run a digressive piston....on the rear I run a 325 spring on a triangulated 4 link and the triple adjust rear shocks i have run a digressive piston, I use the Helwig Protour rear bar....the weight of my car is 3150 with full interior, radio, heater, full tank and Cage the engine is a 6.0 LS.....

my set up is big bar/medium spring
and even with the poundage of springs I run you can see how my car fully compresses coming off the rumble strips at 90mph at the Vegas Track





hope that helps

[bergers59]

Thank Rod, it does help, even all of the banter in some way has helped. Considering suspension setups are subjective, my next question was going to be if there a was middle ground with bar/spring realtionship. However your car shows that there is a middle ground, with an 800lb spring and big bar in front.

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by alwaysracin

Ron,
I am still waiting. You always seem to duck out when asked a real question.


Scott Fraser

Hey guys!

First … I hate this silly bickering. It’s not fun for me … or anyone. I have no desire to participate or extend it. At my age & stage of life, I don’t have anything to prove to anyone. I’ll respond once & hopefully the crap calms down.

A few quick bullet points:
• I have experience in road racing, karts, drag racing & oval racing … with most of my experience in road racing … and am relatively new to autocross competition.
• Autocross IS different ... as are all the 80 different classes of racing I’ve been in.
• Every time I went into a new form of racing … there are always a few guys that tell me my strategies won’t work in this form of racing.
• As a driver, owner, crew chief or driver coach I have 498 personal wins & 22 championships, having won in all 80+ forms of racing I’ve been in.
• As a designer, consultant, trainer, set-up guy … my clients' wins total in the thousands.
• Scott is correct. I only have a small number of currently active autocross clients.
• All have improved. Some have won some local SCCA & GG events. That’s it so far.
• I have a good number of clients with cars being built or modified & expect them to do well too. But only time will tell.

For me, it’s simple …
I have a lot of real world experience in a wide range of racing … that has led to winning success in every series I’ve been in … and I love to help people by sharing that knowledge & experience. Over my lifetime I’ve read a ton of books, went to every workshop I could, tapped into wise veterans as mentors, ran my own cars, done 2500+ test days, ran over 2500 races, etc, etc. A lot of people in my past shared info with me. I feel obligated to share that info forward if someone wants it.

I’m old, comfortable, have no more race teams or cars to run and I’m in a position to share that info through forums, books, workshops & 1-on-1. I really enjoy it … and seems most guys that attend my workshops or read my stuff do too. If I can make a few bucks doing this & my clients are happy … then it’s all good. Scott, you have no interest in running my strategies & why would you? You’re fast … with a lot of successes under your belt with your strategies. I’m not clear on why you’re attacking mine. There is nothing stopping you or anyone from starting your/their own threads on these forums sharing knowledge.

I’m not trying to convert anyone. But I am willing to share advice & knowledge if someone wants it. I only offer advice or info when someone asks. If they want to run my strategy, then I want to help. Want to learn what I have to offer? … Buy a workshop ticket, my book or simply ask a question on my forum threads. No? No worries mate.

There are plenty of other smart, experienced people in this sport. Mike Maier being one of many. Mike & I are old racing buddies. Mike & his brother raced in the same USAC Focus Midget series we did. He could wheel the heck out of them cars too. Mike & I have talked suspension strategies a zillion times. We agree on some things & not on others. He is a super sharp car builder, tuner & driver, as well as having a bajillion autocross wins & championships. You’ll notice he & I are not on here bickering about how to do things.

Should the OP talk to Mike Maier about running CP? Hell yeah! He’s dominated that class with his yellow Mustang. Should the OP also read books, go to workshops, find mentors, etc … I think yes … if he wants to.

Man, this took way too much of my time. Scott, that is why I don’t respond to this crap. That’s 30 minutes of my life wasted.

Best wishes everyone !