1985 Monte Carlo SS known as Barney

[SSLance]

Not sure...that is the "next" stage...

I'm currently working on pages 82, 97 and 99...

And the answer is still "a lot".

[IndyNova]

Great build! I may be acquiring an 85 Monte SS, so this thread will be getting saved...lol

[SSLance]

Stuff is about to get real...




Everyone knows I've needed a brake upgrade on Barney for years...MANY years in fact.

Ever since finding out about Ron Sutton developing a kit to adapt Stoptech brake kits onto Pro-Touring cars, I've known that's what I wanted for Barney. I only want to do this once and I want to do it right!!

The issue causing the long delay in installing them was there isn't a kit available to adapt the brakes to the stock G-body metric spindles I currently have on the car. I spent SO much time dialing in the front end geometry and the steering based on these stock spindles, I was hesitatant to just install another set of spindles...knowing what it would take to keep the geometry optimized. What you see in the picture above is everything that I'll need to use to dial the geometry back to (and hopefully even better than) what I currently run.

This is no small undertaking but with Ron's guidance, some perseverance, and probably a few choice four letter words...I hope to have the new spindles installed in the next week or so.

Then... THEN... We can get around to upgrading the brakes to the best brake kit out on the market... Stoptechs...

I can't wait!!!

[grendel]

2wd Blazer spindles?

They have the same g body geometry and can use a C5/C6 caliper abutment.

This is what we did on Montel.

[GregWeld]

If I end up keeping Old Yeller (will at least until the new Track Warrior car is finished anyway) - I'm thinking I'd for certain upgrade my current Wilwoods to the new StopTechs Sutton is offering.


Now -- pick up a tool, and do something with it!!! LOL

[SSLance]

Originally Posted by grendel

2wd Blazer spindles?

They have the same g body geometry and can use a C5/C6 caliper abutment.

This is what we did on Montel.

I know many that have gone this route, and it was something I considered as well. The wheel bearing would still be an issue and fitment of Ron's adapter kits were another question mark.

These spindles use a C7 hub which is stout and inexpensive to replace at the same time which takes the bearing part out of question. And Ron has worked out all of the geometry to make sure his kits adapt the Stoptech brakes to these spindles with no issues.

This was never about me finding a cheap way to upgrade the brakes, it was much more about finding the easiest way to put the best brakes possible on Barney while optimizing not only the camber gain, but the steering geometry at the same time.

Time was also a factor, I have a very small window to get this swap done while I still have a lift and a shop to work on it in. Taking unknowns out of the equation helped make the decision to press the buy button now and get started.

[SSLance]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

If I end up keeping Old Yeller (will at least until the new Track Warrior car is finished anyway) - I'm thinking I'd for certain upgrade my current Wilwoods to the new StopTechs Sutton is offering.


Now -- pick up a tool, and do something with it!!! LOL

Everyone I've talked with that has put these on and raced with them...absolutely endorses them. I have zero concerns about how they'll perform.

I'll get the tools out shortly...just need a few more boxes to show up before tearing things apart.

[FETorino]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

If I end up keeping Old Yeller (will at least until the new Track Warrior car is finished anyway) - I'm thinking I'd for certain upgrade my current Wilwoods to the new StopTechs Sutton is offering.


Now -- pick up a tool, and do something with it!!! LOL

That sounds like something you really should do to Old Yeller asap.

Lance. Those new spindles and tall balljoints should help with camber gain and I'm sure Ron has everything worked out so you can eliminate any bump steer and optimize that inside tire contact with the caster adjustment you have.

Will you gain any Ackerman with the new steering gear?

Maybe Ron will chime in a little about the specifics of the specs.

The Stoptech's on AO are the best working part of the car. I'm more than happy with my brakes.

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by FETorino

That sounds like something you really should do to Old Yeller asap.

Lance. Those new spindles and tall balljoints should help with camber gain and I'm sure Ron has everything worked out so you can eliminate any bump steer and optimize that inside tire contact with the caster adjustment you have.

Will you gain any Ackerman with the new steering gear?

Maybe Ron will chime in a little about the specifics of the specs.

The Stoptech's on AO are the best working part of the car. I'm more than happy with my brakes.

Hey Rob,

Great questions.

With the change from the G-body spindles Lance had ... and the custom height Howe ball joints to optimize geometry ... the Speedtech ATS Tall spindle only required the lower ball joint studs to be changed for us to achieve optimum roll center.

For the most part, Lance's geometry will stay "almost" the same as it was, which was already optimum as far as:
* Roll center height at ground level in dive
* Roll center migration toward the inside front tire CL
* Optimum camber gain

The only changes we achieved to the roll center was:
* Roll center migration PAST the inside front tire CL
* This will provide a little more grip out of the inside front tire when cornering

The biggest gain we made was ... drum roll please ...
* More Ackerman
* This will provide a LOT more grip out of the inside front tire when cornering
* So, we'll need to add more rear grip to keep it balanced

As Lance stated, the primary reason for the spindle change was so he could go to the new Triple Duty StopTech brakes now ... versus 6-9 months from now. These brakes are flippin' amazing.

By having an ultra rigid caliper like the StopTech ST60 (proved most rigid in my independent testing versus Brembo, AP, Baer & Wilwood) I could ... and did ... increase the piston sizes & area substantially. That combined with the lightweight (only 16#), cool running 14" StopTech AeroRotors® created a high braking force package with street performance pads ... instead of race pads.

The pad we use is unique in that it has good cold bite, a .40 CoF (typical of high performance street/sport pads) and will handle up to 1200° with zero fade. With all other pads, we get EITHER ... good cold bite & low heat tolerance (typically 700-750°) ... or good heat tolerance (1100-1400°) and poor cold bite. This is the first pad I've tested that offers both. A big difference is these pads utilize the newer "Adhesive Technology" that lays down a layer of material on the rotor. The pad & the adhesive layer is where the .40 CoF comes from. A lot of pads use older "Abrasive Technology" where the pad just grinds on the rotors & wears them out.

While we will be offering this special pad for most other brake systems, the pad is only part of the magic. The braking force would be no different than any other .40 CoF pad ... in common braking packages. It's the rigid caliper & higher piston area combined with this pad that makes the magic.

The pads have very little squeal or sound to them. They do dust up some, but less than HP+ or other Autocross pads & way less than Track Day/ Race pads.

Here are my Total Braking Force Guidelines:
2500# = Average passenger car
3000# = Performance street car (Corvettes, Vipers, etc)
3500# = Good track braking system with big tires
4000# = Race braking system with wide slicks
4500# = Full race brake systems with serious downforce & wide slicks

Here is how the StopTech systems I’ve created works out:
StopTech ST60 Front / ST40 Rear / 14” Rotors / 309 Performance Pad = 3460# Braking Force

What's the big deal?
* That's more than a ZR1 Corvette
* One pad compound does street, autocross & track days
* A full set of pads front & rear only cost $186
* Longer pad life & Longer rotor life
* Less inertia & unsprung weight with lightweight 14" rotors
* Cooler running brakes

In short, these are the best brakes designed for triple duty Pro-Touring cars that drive on the street & do autocross and/or track days.

More info & applications HERE

[SSLance]

^ Yeah that!!!