1971 Firebird Build ("The Other Woman", a.k.a. Project "T.O.W.")

[carbuff]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

My Mustang has lost almost 15 #'s since I drove it last. LOL


Didn't cost me a thing. Balsamic on my salad instead of Bleu Cheese... Apple and Raw Almonds for snacks... Breakfast is 3 tablespoons of Granola - a package of non fat yogurt - and a 1/3 cup of blueberries instead of bacon and eggs and potatoes and sourdough toast with butter and jam...

Yeah, well, I'm working on that too... I have about 50 to go.

Unfortunately I'm sidelined with a knee problem at the moment. I'm having it scoped later this month to remove a piece of floating bone. Fun stuff...

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

PRETTY DANG HARD TO RUN A CAR WITHOUT A DRIVER..... SO what's the point of saying my car weighs "X" if you don't include the driver and fuel and, and.....


'NUFF SAID

It runs 10.90's Greg.... therefore it runs 10's!

Originally Posted by GregWeld

My Mustang has lost almost 15 #'s since I drove it last. LOL


Didn't cost me a thing. Balsamic on my salad instead of Bleu Cheese... Apple and Raw Almonds for snacks... Breakfast is 3 tablespoons of Granola - a package of non fat yogurt - and a 1/3 cup of blueberries instead of bacon and eggs and potatoes and sourdough toast with butter and jam...

You are getting less fun by the day.

Originally Posted by carbuff

Greg,

No offense taken. I completely agree with you...

I had Texas Speed rebuild the motor last year when I dropped the valve. I don't blame the dropped valve on the original engine builder, I think it was moreso due to having sat for 5 years. But I don't want to go back to Texas Speed for another rebuild.

So I went on a hunt for another builder. I didn't find anyone in Austin that has much of a reputation for LS engines, but there are several shops in Houston that have good reps. After speaking with a few of them, I've decided to have H-Squared Racing do the rebuild. We've had multiple discussions about what I'm doing with the car, what I want in the engine, and the level of details that should be discussed during a build. Today we talked about piston options and deck height options and compression ratio options, as an example.

To make things even better, he has offered to help me pull and reinstall the engine, as Eric's shop is full so he doesn't have space to do it right now. I didn't ask, he offered. So I'm towing TOW down to Houston on Friday to start the process.

Regarding the Accusump, I'm definitely not happy that it didn't help (assuming that it didn't). I figured out during my second day at COTA that my Accusump wasn't working. It didn't prime when I flipped the switch on at some point during the day. I used my multimeter to determine that the pressure switch in the block wasn't working. WTF, how did that die? Anyway, I bypassed it and had the Holley controlling the Accusump valve. But it's likely that any damage was done before I figured that out.

Once I get the engine out, I'll pull the sensor and contact Canton about it. I may leave the sensor out and just use the Holley for the control.

All I have to say is with as much money as you have in your car and motor(s) I just don't understand why you wouldn't make the necessary changes to go dry sump. You are continuously going faster and adding grip and that means more G's...

Did you already buy this sleeved block? Why not LS7 block and go aftermarket dry sump? I get it... already have the heads... bla bla bla. Just sayin....

But hey, at least you're out there busting up parts and stuff.

[GregWeld]

Glad you're working on a different builder. I'd have recommended Don Hardy race engines. But hopefully this all works out for you.

[Gscherer78ta]

Originally Posted by carbuff

Yes, the car's weight included my weight (weight plates).

When I first put TOW on the scales, it was 3810 or so with me in it. Since then I've added the Accusump, rear sway bar, remote oil filter, the change from the LS2 to the LS7 block, and I've put on a few pounds. Not that many though.

A firebird has a very heavy front bumper (75 pounds or so). The Camaro RS urethane bumper is about 30 or so? Also the brackets for the Firebird are heavy.

I have no actual data to prove it, but I think the JRS subframe is pretty heavy too. When I was moving it around, it certainly wasn't light.

Just for comparison sake... My '78 TA weighs in at 3828 - Full tank of gas, no driver, full interior, amp and sub. I'm 100# more on each front wheel and 100# less on each back wheel. I also have the Pontiac motor with cast iron heads.

[carbuff]

Originally Posted by Gscherer78ta

Just for comparison sake... My '78 TA weighs in at 3828 - Full tank of gas, no driver, full interior, amp and sub. I'm 100# more on each front wheel and 100# less on each back wheel. I also have the Pontiac motor with cast iron heads.

Thanx for that data point. Is your battery in the front or back, I can't remember at the moment. Mine is rear, which helps a little. Mine was almost full tank of fuel as well.

[carbuff]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Glad you're working on a different builder. I'd have recommended Don Hardy race engines. But hopefully this all works out for you.

I've seen you mention his name before. I've never seen his name in the LS forums I read (LS1tech, Corvette Forums), but I get the impression from his Instagram page that he does more builds for cars like ours or show cars. Am I wrong on that? I'll do some Googling on him...

[carbuff]

Originally Posted by Flash68

All I have to say is with as much money as you have in your car and motor(s) I just don't understand why you wouldn't make the necessary changes to go dry sump. You are continuously going faster and adding grip and that means more G's...

Did you already buy this sleeved block? Why not LS7 block and go aftermarket dry sump? I get it... already have the heads... bla bla bla. Just sayin....

But hey, at least you're out there busting up parts and stuff.

It's a fair question. And a decision that I'm not taking lightly, I promise...

There are a few factors at play here. Yes, cost is one of them, but I'm not letting it be the driving decision for me (all in, including my assumed Eric fab time, I'm looking at around $6.5 - 7k for the switch). The bigger issue is fitment of the tank.

Last night I spent an hour under the hood with my 'mockup' oil tank:



Some cardboard and posterboard built in the shape and size of the smallest tank recommended for me to use (6" diameter, 19.5" tall, ~2 gallon capacity). I'm trying to find a space to mount this.

Eric mounted a tank in SW's Camaro behind the passenger side headlight. That is the preferred spot for convenience / accessibility / hose routing. On my car though, I'd swear the inner fender is different in that area, and it would be a lot harder to cut / route the tank into that space. Not to mention I already have stuff in that area.

So then I am looking at a firewall mount. Because of the downbars we have as well as the AC hoses going into the car and the location of the header, I'm not comfortable that this location will work. Will my mock up fit? Yes, but only barely. By the time I add the clamps for mounting, I have less than 1/2" from the header tube to the side of the tank. That's not enough for me to be comfortable that it will actually fit, or not boil the oil in the tank due to heat.

Oh, not to mention that I'm not completely comfortable that the firewall would support the weight of a tank and 2G of oil right there without some significant reinforcement.

I also looked at the driver's side behind the headlight. That's where my radiator catch can is, and I still have the inner fender problem.

Any of these could be solved with more significant work to sheetmetal or header reshaping, etc. The problem becomes time. As I said, Eric is busy, and I'm not equipped to do it myself. But even if I were, I'm not 100% certain I have a spot available that would really work. I even looked at hanging it behind the radiator, but again there isn't enough clearance between the fans and the accessories.

Note that I do currently have an LS7 block. But I have a wet sump crank. I could convert to the LS7 dry sump, but if I'm going dry sump, I'm going Dailey external. I'll be using my current LS3-based heads on the new block. They make plenty of power, although stepping to an LS7 architecture would have more potential. That's for the next project.

I believe that I'm going to solve my problem with a better build, a fixed Accusump circuit, restricted flow pushrods, and a better oil pump (and possibly pan change, I'm going to look into that also). As Greg said, plenty of people run the LS engines without having oil supply problems. I will solve this!

[carbuff]

In a continued effort to find a possible solution to adding an oil tank, I Googled tank companies today. I found one that will build a custom tank in any shape I want: Stef's. I gave them a call, and it seems like they can really build just about any shape, so it's up to me to determine the best shape...

I posted a picture of my cylinder that I made yesterday. Here are some shots of me trying to fit it. You can see, it's really tight, especially to the header:











I just don't think that's going to work, and this is a 2-gallon tank. I'm getting conflicting opinions as to whether that's big enough, which means I should probably target something larger.

So I pulled out the tape measure and came up with some dimensions. Then the box cutter and cardboard.









This was a 12x12x5 box. It needs to be angled at the inner fender which cuts down on the available volume, but I also can go a little deeper at the firewall/back side. Doing a lot of math, I've determined that I can get a total volume of between 2.75 and 3.25 gallons. The effective volume would be less, as there has to be some air space at the top where the oil return comes back in.

Tomorrow I'm going to build some more models after doing my calcs. Making a box like this will restrict access to some things (#8 plug, although I can still get to it), the rear-most UCA screw (which I can get to from the bottom). But it may be a viable option...

More to come...

[Flash68]

Slowly.... Step away from the cardboard....

Peterson 2.5 gallon on a LS in that location.

[grendel]

Why not run multiple tanks?