Advice On Building

[214Chevy]

To the Mods and Lateral-g Family:

First off, let me apologize before hand if this is out of line due to the thread that just closed on the Fesler/Ring Brothers dispute. If I am out of line, just close and delete my thread and I again apologize. This thread is in no way intended to refer back to the closed thread. Nor, will I or do I want anyone to mention either companies (Fesler/RB) names in my post. We are moving on from that. I just want some clarification as to what I’m about to do so I can remain respectful to the company I’m about to refer to.


Guys, can I ask a question in reference to liking, admiring and building off of someone else’s ideas and work. What I’m getting at is Roadster Shop’s IRS suspension. I know many of us saw and followed Chris’s 66 Chevelle build. RS was the first one to design and build an IRS 9” for our muscle cars. Oh, what a thing of beauty it is. I liked it so much that I literally had 20 so, or more, conversations over the phone with Bryan at the Roadster Shop. Bryan and I talked about the different options. Finally, it all boiled down to the cost, which was no where in my budget. I thought about selling a lot of my other parts just to be able to buy the IRS from the RS. I will back track and say that even before RS came out with their IRS 9” I wanted to do one in my Chevelle, but just didn’t know how and lacked the necessary knowledge and fab skills. Plus, I was going to do a C4 rear, because I’ve seen it done before in muscle cars. Prior to RS building Chris’s in his 66 Chevelle, others used C5 stuff, but it was using the torque tube and I didn’t want to do that and have to cut up my floor and stuff. Now, jumping back forward, RS comes out with Chris’s frame and I totally want it, of course. That’s when I called and began several talks with Bryan at the RS. After realizing that the RS IRS 9” is no where in my budget, I starting thinking about doing my own. Since I was getting a custom frame built anyway, I talked to my builder about doing it and he said he could do it with no problem. He said they’ve done it many times before, except in rods with Heidt’s IRS. I told him what rear end I wanted and he is going to work on it. I then bought all my own parts. I emphatically stated that I do not want mine to look like the RS IRS for these very reasons of “copy cat” building as I do know that is a very disrespectful and is a BIG NO-NO!! So, I end this thread by saying my builder and I are installing an IRS 9” in my 72 Chevelle with the same components of course, C5 stuff, but it will look totally different. Is this okay to do? Am I doing anything wrong? I want to hear from everyone, good and bad comments are okay with me. Hey, I asked a question…didn’t I? So, I can handle it. Let me end my post by saying, I love the RS work and think it is phenomenal and second to none. Phil and the guys there are grade “A”, top notch builders. I really just wanted to buy theirs since all of the R&D had been done. It just wasn’t in my budget. You can't blame a guy for trying to save money and do his own stuff can you?

[70rs]

Build it, drive it, enjoy it.
Tons of rods, sports cars, custom "whatevers" run IRS.
It's your car, build it for you!

[Ron in SoCal]

Hey Marcus...you how I feel about this, cause we've talked about it quite a bit. The bottom line is chassis manufacterers are very protective of their designs and rightfully so. A lot of investment and R&D goes into that. However, RS did not invent IRS, they just made it their own way. They did not even invent c5/6 IRS either, so they really can't be mad at you for that. If you took their design elements and yours looked like an exact copy, if you took theirs made some measurements and started making an exact dup (especially to bring to market), I wouldn't blame them for getting seriously ticked off. But you're not doing that; your guy is fabbing his own so I really don't see an issue.

One point I would ask you to consider for yourself, after spending all the time on the phone how would you feel if you educated a potential customer and he took enough data away and built his own? If the subject of price came up early, I think the RS would be asking. 'if he knew it was out of his budget, why did he keep calling? Just to learn how to do it?'...Perhaps a gentlemanly discussion w RS is in order?

Good luck Bro.I commend you for being willing to discuss this in a public forum!

[214Chevy]

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal

....One point I would ask you to consider for yourself, after spending all the time on the phone how would you feel if you educated a potential customer and he took enough data away and built his own? If the subject of price came up early, I think the RS would be asking. 'if he knew it was out of his budget, why did he keep calling? Just to learn how to do it?'...Perhaps a gentlemanly discussion w RS is in order?

Good luck Bro.I commend you for being willing to discuss this in a public forum!

I see your point Ron about price. As a matter of fact, price did come up early, very early. So early, it was the very first conversation we had. The following 1 million phone calls (LOL!!) were not necessarily trying to get info on how to build it, it was a matter of trying to make it more affordable for me. Like I mentioned in my original post, Bryan and I discussed several options. Those options ranged anywhere from me supplying all my own parts to RS just building me the frame rails and I finish the rest. Other options were them just selling me their custom control arms, etc and I make my own frame rails to them just supplying me the rear clip and I weld it into my frame. Several options were discussed and Bryan is an awesome guy. I give him kudos because he tried everything he could do for me. He was honest in even telling me when something would not work. Never was my plan to gain insight and pick their brain just for info to spend my money elsewhere. To be honest Bryan even offered to buy my frame as a credit and then sell me the IRS complete frame. Now, if that ain't customer service I don't know what is. It still just wasn't in my budget. It sucks being poor. LOL!!

[Ron in SoCal]

^ I really don't see a probelm w that. You were speaking with them to try and figure out a way to buy their product. I stand by my first paragraph...

[70rs]

Here is how I see it. And please tell me (anyone/everyone) if I am out of line here.

If a person chooses to fabricate any part for use on thier own project, as a one time deal that really shouldn't be a problem.
But, if that person takes it into production for sale to the public it had better be thier own design.

You want to make a similar product as RS for your own private use. You went to them trying to find any way you could to buy direct. It didn't work out. So because you can't afford it you're out of luck? No, you found a way to get what you want on your own.

I say more power to you.
That is exactly what this hobby is all about in my mind.

[Roadster Shop]

Marcus, everything is good on our end, no hard feelings or anything like that. We were never under the impression that you were searching for information to build your own. We did try to get you into one of our IRS units a number of ways to try to fit your budget. I do really appreciate your post as well as your PM laying everything out and explaining your position. That was a stand up thing to do.

To be perfectly honest, if you are going to try to build your own IRS you will probably end up spending more time and money in the long run. (especially if you are paying someone to do it) I can't tell you the amount of hours that we spent in R&D and building the initial unit. Before we even began touching metal, there were months and months of time in front of a computer designing the geometry and getting the results that we set out after. Building the first one, or a 1-off unit will always take 100 times longer than a production unit (after the R&D phase is completed). If you do not spend the time in the R&D phase you will most likely end up with a product that will not perform as you initially intended. There is a lot more to a suspension than just purchasing several components (that were not engineered to work together) and making something out of them. Not trying to knock what you are doing by any means.

I appreciate your effort to not make it look like our IRS unit as well.

Good Luck,
Phil

[Roadster Shop]

Ron and Eric, well said.

[96z28ss]

Hot rodders have been doing it for a long time.
Check into these guys they are local to me and have a good rep. Probably get most of your parts from them.
http://www.dutchmanaxles.com/product...ckage-cv-style

[elitecustombody]

You're good to go with RS's blessing