Custom Fuel Tanks Saftey

[syborg tt]

My concern is Fuel Tank location on all of our cars. Currently they hang very low and are pretty much a target in all rear end collisions. Which could then of course cause the fuel to leak and start the car on fire which would be bad for both party's in the accident.

Chrysler is being asked to recall some 3 million vehicle for this exact reason and it's simple proof that we need to update what we are doing with our cars.

So far a drop in Mustang type "Fuel Safe" Fuel cell dropped into a raise trunk floor makes the most sense to a few of the guys I've spoken with. It would allow you to add protection to the rear of the car and the Fuel Safe Cell is crash test approved. Something that most of the custom tanks out there are not.

Which then brings me to Product Liability let's do worst case here. You and your new custom made gas tank car are in an accident. You get rear ended it and both cars catch on fire. You were lucky and you get out alive with minor burns. The person that hit you gets out with major burns or god forbid Die's. What now ?? I am certain since there was a death there will be an investigation and the insurance company's and lawyers are going to have a field day. So now if you put a stock style tank in the car that has been remanufactured I would assume that your liability would be null.

just my thought and I would love to here what you guy's think.

ps and if you don't think it could happen. I had posted on the Bad Penny thread about his original gas tank and the fuel line locations and Steve wasn't concerned. Well that was till he got rear ended and then he change the tank to a fuel cell.

[Flash68]

I hear you loud and clear on this.



Here is the blueprint:

http://www.circletrack.com/safety/ct...d/viewall.html

Finished product will look like this.

Overkill? Probably.
Safe? You bet.

[XLexusTech]

i plan on having a tank built. I believe you can buy a bladder form ATL for any tank? Cant you?

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by XLexusTech

i plan on having a tank built. I believe you can buy a bladder form ATL for any tank? Cant you?

Yes you can buy all the parts individually from ATL or Fuel Safe.

[Rick D]

Originally Posted by syborg tt

My concern is Fuel Tank location on all of our cars. Currently they hang very low and are pretty much a target in all rear end collisions. Which could then of course cause the fuel to leak and start the car on fire which would be bad for both party's in the accident.

Chrysler is being asked to recall some 3 million vehicle for this exact reason and it's simple proof that we need to update what we are doing with our cars.

So far a drop in Mustang type "Fuel Safe" Fuel cell dropped into a raise trunk floor makes the most sense to a few of the guys I've spoken with. It would allow you to add protection to the rear of the car and the Fuel Safe Cell is crash test approved. Something that most of the custom tanks out there are not.

Which then brings me to Product Liability let's do worst case here. You and your new custom made gas tank car are in an accident. You get rear ended it and both cars catch on fire. You were lucky and you get out alive with minor burns. The person that hit you gets out with major burns or god forbid Die's. What now ?? I am certain since there was a death there will be an investigation and the insurance company's and lawyers are going to have a field day. So now if you put a stock style tank in the car that has been remanufactured I would assume that your liability would be null.

just my thought and I would love to here what you guy's think.

ps and if you don't think it could happen. I had posted on the Bad Penny thread about his original gas tank and the fuel line locations and Steve wasn't concerned. Well that was till he got rear ended and then he change the tank to a fuel cell.

Your still not getting my Ricks tank!!!



J/K

Good topic Marty, I have wondered this my self before. I guess that's part of the reason some of our parts cost so much, I'm sure company's like ATL, FuelSafe, and Ricks have to have loads of liability ins?

[syborg tt]

Originally Posted by Rick D

Your still not getting my Ricks tank!!!


J/K

Good topic Marty, I have wondered this my self before. I guess that's part of the reason some of our parts cost so much, I'm sure company's like ATL, FuelSafe, and Ricks have to have loads of liability ins?

The concern in an accident is fuel containment and the stock gas tanks and tanks like Ricks don't contain fuel if they are punctured. The bladder that is in a Fuel Safe or ATL tank is your fail safe.

It is also hard to build protection around a stock style tank without first moving it out of harms way. If you can see the tank when your behind the car then so can the cars bumper that is going to hit it.

Things that need to be consider in my opinion:
1. Fuel Tank Location

2. Fuel line location going to the tank
-- if they are visible from behind then your Dead !!
-- if there isn't a long enough soft line from the hard line (that's not good)

3. Proper rear impact protection
-- remember the Pinto (no sharp hardware that can puncture the tank)
-- someone smarter then me please add there skills to this line

4. Fuel Pump Location
-- Will it suffer impact from the tank in a collision

5. Exhaust ( yes really )
-- if a line leaks will it spray on a hot exhaust

I have more idea's floating around in my head but I would like to here what some of the serious builders think.

ps - just because it was done that way in the past doesn't make it right or smart today. We all have updated our brakes, suspension, motors and body's. Now it's time we start thinking about Safety for us and anyone that may be in our car.

and no I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[ccracin]

Marty, I am really glad to see a thread like his start. I have some of the same concerns running around in my head. I have taken a lot of what I have seen in racing and thought of it when building our truck. And yes, I have seen ATL and Fuel Safe cells get hit and leak. Nothing is full proof but good practice always helps. I built our stainless cell myself. It does not have a bladder, but I did use the vaporworx system. I think this is a very safe system since the pump is in the tank. In my mind the tank adds protection to the pump. Our tank is completely surrounded in the rear by the 2x4 frame rails. Including across the back. I will try to post some pics tomorrow. They are on my other computer. Should be some in my build thread too. It doesn't hang below the frame rails until you get closer to the rear end housing. If it gets hit, the offending vehicle will be a foot deep under the truck.

Let me speak quickly about the 1x1 steel tube type cages built for fuel cells. Similar to the pics above. I don't like those. In almost all cases I saw a high quality cell fail, it was because one of those tubes punctured the tank in a hard rear impact. If you hit a sheet metal can it will buckle and bend but rarely creates spears to puncture the cell. I am a fan of flat stock to build a cradle to hang the cell. It will bend with the sheet metal and rarely rips.

I'd like to hear what people have to say about in tank pumps like the vaporworx system used with foam in the fuel tank. Does it become a problem?

The last question I have goes back to your comment Marty about product liability insurance. I wonder how many small vendors carry it? Especially those making critical safety items. Fuel cells, suspension components, chassis, sub frames, etc, etc.... This is a subject I am going to educate myself on in the future. I was talking to a gentleman recently about our hobby. He is not a car guyat all and was intrigued by the pics of our project. As we talked and learned that some of these suppliers are small start up businesses, he asked this same question. Turns out he was a lawyer. His advice was to ask up front if the manufacturer carried product liability insurance. If the answer was no, he said move on. So what does everyone think?

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by ccracin

Let me speak quickly about the 1x1 steel tube type cages built for fuel cells. Similar to the pics above. I don't like those. In almost all cases I saw a high quality cell fail, it was because one of those tubes punctured the tank in a hard rear impact. If you hit a sheet metal can it will buckle and bend but rarely creates spears to puncture the cell. I am a fan of flat stock to build a cradle to hang the cell. It will bend with the sheet metal and rarely rips.

I was looking at the cage construction today and thinking exactly what you confirm. If the vertical tubes shear at the weld they're basically spears. Using heavy angle iron for the lower might be an improvement, but that location justifies the ballistic cells

As far as location, anything behind the rear axle is vulnerable. With a Gen 1 Camaro I'd be tempted to install the cell where the rear seat base resides keeping the CG low and weight close to the rear axle then build a suitable firewall to protect occupants(2). I haven't seen it done, is my reasoning flawed?

[Rick D]

Originally Posted by ratman67

i ran body shops for 18 years and never saw a gas tank damaged to where it leaked, and i have seen some train wrecks in that time...

i think the best bet for safety in this area is a full cage through to the rear of the car... you would have to be hit by a freight train to damage the fuel tank...if your cage runs through the package tray to just inside the rear body panel tied into the top of the rear frame rails...

if you are still concerned, how bout a big azz on board fire system, is halon still available in the states? rm

RM, but you are talking OEM fuel tanks. They are designed to take that hit and have to have safety built into them. What Marty is referring to is the aftermarket replacement fuel tanks, like Rockvally or Rick, or ????

We spend so much money on wheels, brakes, engines, even fuel systems but most do not put as much thought or dollars into safety.

Some of the fuels cells are designed with safety in mind, but my car is a street car and will see maybe a couple of track days a year so thoughs do not work for my application. I have a Ricks SS tank but how does it compair to an OE tank from a crash stand point? I would think it would hold up as well in a rear end crash but unless Ricks has done crash testing (which I don't know if they have or have not) I won't know unless I get hit in the rear.

Disclaimer: I'm not picking on Ricks tanks here I just used them as a reference as I have one of their tanks and wow is it a work of art!!!

[65 347]

Great topic Marty. I put a Fuel Safe tank in my mustang not just for my safety but my family rides in the car. The early mustangs dont have any sheet metal between the gas tank and the passanger compartment. I used a fuel safe and put a rear firewall in behind the rear seat. Thanks for bringing this up.

Mike