Tall Ball Joint Upgrade w/ DSE Upper Control Arms

[NvrDun71]

Looking at doing a few upgrades to help overall suspension geometry up front on my Nova project, but have gotten some conflicting info from DSE on the subject.

Basically the car currently has the DSE Speed Kit 1 consisting of there upper and lower arms, 2" drop coil springs, and Koni shocks. I would like to add a tall upper ball joint and potentially tall tie rod end, but DSE seems to discourage this claiming that there isn't a need with the geometry improvements they already have worked into their arms. I'm assuming the discouragement may be tied back to a liability issue, but it just seems odd that they wouldn't incorporate a change like this as standard equipment?

Ultimately just trying to make an informed decision on what brand & height upper ball joint would be a safe upgrade, and if there is any disadvantage in going this route?

[NvrDun71]

Dang no love for tall ball joints these days? No one running them with aftermarket arms?

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by NvrDun71

Looking at doing a few upgrades to help overall suspension geometry up front on my Nova project, but have gotten some conflicting info from DSE on the subject.

Basically the car currently has the DSE Speed Kit 1 consisting of there upper and lower arms, 2" drop coil springs, and Koni shocks. I would like to add a tall upper ball joint and potentially tall tie rod end, but DSE seems to discourage this claiming that there isn't a need with the geometry improvements they already have worked into their arms. I'm assuming the discouragement may be tied back to a liability issue, but it just seems odd that they wouldn't incorporate a change like this as standard equipment?

Ultimately just trying to make an informed decision on what brand & height upper ball joint would be a safe upgrade, and if there is any disadvantage in going this route?

but DSE seems to discourage this claiming that there isn't a need with the geometry improvements they already have worked into their arms. I'm assuming the discouragement may be tied back to a liability issue, but it just seems odd that they wouldn't incorporate a change like this as standard equipment?


Im not too sure there is a need for more added travel camber gain. I believe its already in with the UCA weld in mount. Did you get a camber reading before and after the speed 3 installation?

[Rod P]

the control arms that DSE gives you are the same in the speed1 kit and speed 3 kit, if the tech told you it wasn't necessary because it was fixed in the control arm....umm..he's wrong....sorry tech dude, that is why on the higher end speed3 kit you sell a control arm relocation bracket..(also known as the guldstrand mod the hard way) and that is how they fix (SOME) of the camber curve issues (its only fixed by changing the pivot points) the tube arm mounts to the same spots as the stock arm there for the camber gain is the same as stock..so you must either do a DSE control arm relocation bracket, a guldstrand mod(same thing) or a tall ball joint...mind you IT WONT FIX IT!! all these just start to give the "no camber gain" designed GM suspension some camber help...so recap...do one of these......if your not running a tall spindle...

DSE relocation kit
Guldstrand mod
tall upper ball joint

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I thought I read you had the upper (speed 3) mount done.

[NvrDun71]

Originally Posted by Rod P

the control arms that DSE gives you are the same in the speed1 kit and speed 3 kit, if the tech told you it wasn't necessary because it was fixed in the control arm....umm..he's wrong....sorry tech dude, that is why on the higher end speed3 kit you sell a control arm relocation bracket..(also known as the guldstrand mod the hard way) and that is how they fix (SOME) of the camber curve issues (its only fixed by changing the pivot points) the tube arm mounts to the same spots as the stock arm there for the camber gain is the same as stock..so you must either do a DSE control arm relocation bracket, a guldstrand mod(same thing) or a tall ball joint...mind you IT WONT FIX IT!! all these just start to give the "no camber gain" designed GM suspension some camber help...so recap...do one of these......if your not running a tall spindle...

DSE relocation kit
Guldstrand mod
tall upper ball joint

Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab

I thought I read you had the upper (speed 3) mount done.

Rod/Vince the feedback is much appreciated. To clarify I'm running a speed 1 kit (traditional shock & drop spring) no coil over, with an unmodified original subframe. Currently have not done any hole relocation or guldstrand mod. DSE techs have not advised to run there speed kit 3 upper mod, to be honest I had not heard of this until you guys mentioned it here. Only had knowledge of the guldstrand mod...

I will call and get there feedback on this with a non coil-over application. Leaning toward the tall ball joint still, hoping gains although minimal will be beneficial over stock geometry.

[Panteracer]

I have spreedtech upper and lower control arms
on my stock frame for my f-body... my suspension
guy wanted me to go to a taller upper ball joint (1" Howes)
seems to have helped but not exact testing just a few runs
and looking how the tire patch hits now when turning

Bob

[6'9"Witha69]

Originally Posted by Rod P

the control arms that DSE gives you are the same in the speed1 kit and speed 3 kit, if the tech told you it wasn't necessary because it was fixed in the control arm....umm..he's wrong....sorry tech dude, that is why on the higher end speed3 kit you sell a control arm relocation bracket..(also known as the guldstrand mod the hard way) and that is how they fix (SOME) of the camber curve issues (its only fixed by changing the pivot points) the tube arm mounts to the same spots as the stock arm there for the camber gain is the same as stock..so you must either do a DSE control arm relocation bracket, a guldstrand mod(same thing) or a tall ball joint...mind you IT WONT FIX IT!! all these just start to give the "no camber gain" designed GM suspension some camber help...so recap...do one of these......if your not running a tall spindle...

DSE relocation kit
Guldstrand mod
tall upper ball joint

I wish I could 'rep' an answer like in other forums. This^^. I have XTall uppers in GW upper arms running Hotchkis springs/Bilstein shocks. It made a huge difference.

Now what I experienced was that apparently there are 3 types of GM upper ball joint. all have the same taper, etc, but the difference is they have different bore diameters for the bodies. GW uses the smallest. HOWE copies the largest (for strength purposes), so I had to bore out the hole in my GW uppers to put the HOWE ones in there. Longest part of the install.

All info is what I remember from my convo with Mark from SC&C about 5 years ago.

So perhaps call Mark and see if he knows which UBJ DSE uses and whether you'll have a date with a dremel or not before you buy.