Somebody FREAKIN shoot me!!!!

[syborg tt]

Originally Posted by Garage Dog 65

‘Invest’ in 'decent' Education ???

I don’t see how continuing to pour more and more money into the education system will in any way fix the actual problem(s). Check around and see how much of every tax dollar heads to education from your county, state and national taxes – and everyone still says our education system is terrible. I don’t see how that’s possible unless the money isn’t spent correctly – and a lot isn’t.

How has the curriculum for K-12 changed that much over the years? Science and technology yes – but the basics haven’t changed that much - Reading/Writing, Math, Chemistry, Physics, History…

And now we’re talking about how every kid has the right to a college education – read that as free by the way… Not sure who gets to pay for that.

Root Cause: These days we refuse to look at the actual causes of problems and seek to fix those because everyone is so entrenched in their ‘sides’ positions and theology and fight to maintain ‘their’ ground. There is no low hanging fruit anymore, very few easy decisions. There are big, difficult decisions that need to be made and put into effect – but the country is so divided I really don’t see much progress being made in any direction.

I have a friend that worked in the local High School as a Teacher. The school paid for his/her Masters and when he/she graduated they automatically received a $25,000.00 increase in salary. This increase put his/her salary in the 6 figure mark which really seems high for a High School teacher.

I'm not saying that he/she didn't deserve the salary but if you take a school that has over 100 teachers in it and you add up all of the big dollar salary's and the fact that we also pay for the pension & continued education.

Eventually we are all going to be broke paying property taxes and income taxes.

[GregWeld]

[QUOTE=Garage Dog 65;449905]‘Invest’ in 'decent' Education ???

I don’t see how continuing to pour more and more money into the education system will in any way fix the actual problem(s)./QUOTE]



I cut the quote short -- because this first statement is enough.


From my Sister in Law whom happens to be a teacher.

There are only so many hours in a class day. Since the 60's we have added all manor of courses to teach -- but not a single increase in class hours or days to the school year.

A day is now divided into about 8 or 9 subjects - including breaks, lunch and assemblies etc. Add to this the number of increased days off for 'teacher workshops' etc. A classroom day used to be MATH, WRITING, READING, SOCIAL STUDIES, AND ENGLISH. You actually had enough time to teach these basic subjects. They then added Sex Ed - Language - Music - Art - Science - Physical Ed.

You know -- it makes sense to me.... You just can't spend enough time TEACHING basics let alone all the "other stuff" that we used to do AFTER SCHOOL.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Mkelcy

I'm not sure I understand why you want to go after "entitlements" rather than, say, bullet trains or military spending.

I'm going to retire in a few years, with some savings both after tax and tax deferred. My savings are probably enough that I might be hit by your desire for a need test on benefits that I will have paid for for over 50 years. Why is that the best way to reduce the debt?

I doubt (but hope you are!) that you're earnings on savings will get you into the 1% category where I think the needs testing should be done. If you're going to make $300 or 400K in interest in retirement kudos to you. If that's the case you would be on my side of this discussion.

Moreover, I don't see anything in the Republican plans that looks like a needs test, all I see is across the board cuts. Again, why is that the best way to reduce the deficit, particularly while resisting any change to the top tax rates?

You seem to be like a lot of people and just believe what you read or hear on TV. BOTH sides are going to the extreme before they come back to some agreement somewhere closer to the middle. Don't believe the "facts" or talking points just because they're forwarded in the headlines. Its called posturing.

Tax savings for the 1% aren't going to be immediately recirculated in the economy because the 1% simply don't need that money day-to-day; tax savings for the 99%, on the other hand, are likely going to be spent and help the economy.

The 1% ARE the economy.... and what happens is that when they stop spending YOU don't have a job. They'll be fine - you will suck. "You" doesn't mean you personally but an overall you. I agree that I won't miss a beat if I'm taxed higher -- and I've personally stated that I don't mind a tax increase at all. But you aren't reading well or listening well. What has been said time and time again is that people are FINE with tax increases on the top earners - BUT!!! BIG BUTT!!! It SHOULD come with some controls or reductions in RUN AWAY SPENDING.

I agree there's a lot of government waste but most of what people are talking about here (Solyndra, Obama phones, Medicare disability payments) is down in the budgetary noise. If you want to reduce the deficit, increase taxes, reduce military spending and invest in this country (decent education, infrastructure and, yes, alternative energy), so we can increase GDP and, as a result, the taxable base.

SO here's the deal. If you make $500 a week -- you'll spend $500 a week - if I give you $600 a week you'll spend that and if I gave you $700 a week you'd spend that. You'd keep spending as long as the money keeps pouring in. You wouldn't stop and take a look at your "budget" until someone came and said -- HEY! You're spending too much and now you're only going to get $600 a week. How you'd cut your spending is a problem for you. After all.... you NEED that new car.... and you NEED that big azz TV... What people are TRYING to say is that until you get REAL and start to really look at and revise these programs and reel them in to do their intended use -- we have a problem with that! But NOBODY is going to take a real look at this unless there's some feet to the fire and that will take some CUTTING.

I don't know ANYONE that wants to see these programs cut out - or cut so that people get harmed... But what needs to be done is that they need to be constrained enough that someone cuts the crap out! AND if you don't think there's a HUGE amount of crap --- then there's no point on which we can agree.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Mkelcy

I agree there's a lot of government waste but most of what people are talking about here (Solyndra, Obama phones, Medicare disability payments) is down in the budgetary noise.

It is EXACTLY this sort of thinking that has gotten the US into the mess it is in. Nothing in the way of spending seems to be "important enough" to look at. It's ONLY 3 billion for this -- or ONLY 100 billion for that... nothing really very important.


I ask you --- is this the way you run your budget? Nothing ever gets a look -- every dime going out is absolutely necessary? You never try to revisit any expense to see if there are some savings to be had?

Now -- if you tell me that you can't cut your house payment - you can't possibly cut your TWO or THREE car payments - you can't do without electricity and water or dinner out ONLY one night a week... I might understand...

...BUT you're coming to me and asking me to pay for those items aren't you? And since I don't pay enough - you're okay with that 'cause you'll just borrow it (at my expense) from someone else... and then while you're at it -- what the hell -- going out 2 nights a week just isn't that big of an extra expense - so why not. And when you fail at controlling your expenses -- you should have no conscience telling me that I owe you more...Why? Because I have extra and you pissed yours all away.

WOW.... is all I have to say about that way of thinking.

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by Shmoov69

Nail..... Head..... You HIT it!!!
Don't forget how immensely important sports is as well!!

My wife's side of the family are all rural area working class teachers and the family is three generations deep in teaching. My in-laws were 30 year middle school Physical Education retiree's (Steve Prefontaine was their student, his sister is a friend), Uncle coached the State Champ 6 man football team, his son coaches the just crowns State AAAA Champions, niece played volleyball for the U of O and coached her High School VB team, her husband is the Varsity B-ball Coach. The in-laws, aunts, and uncles all grew up on the family ranch/farm that we still run.

There are some interesting conversations surrounding major metro education practices at our family functions that wouldn't be considered politically correct.


PERS distribution is public info and our 4 senior retirees individual annual income is between $31-$35,000, Oregon's last football coach Mike Bellotti (also a friend) retired a couple years ago and his PERS income is $42,000 A MONTH!

Another friend who started in patrol and ended up being Chief of Police receives $9,200 a month for his 30 years of service.......he retired at 51.

We understand Phys Ed and the PERS plan leading the state into bankruptcy.

[Shmoov69]

My point exactly! The school systems will spend MILLIONS on a freakin football stadium and sports programs so we can focus on sports instead of learning something. Don't get me wrong I LOVE football, but its a freakin sport/hobby that for 99.9999% of kids that "play" won't be able to make a career out of it and support themselves. And if they are good, then they are shuffled thru school and given a free ride to college, where they do it all over again for the same reason not learning a thing and more than likely wont get a job in it. I know there are a few that actually learn and make it in "life", but that should be focused on and taught first! It's sickening how far we have regressed over the last 50ish years!!

Originally Posted by Sieg

My wife's side of the family are all rural area working class teachers and the family is three generations deep in teaching. My in-laws were 30 year middle school Physical Education retiree's (Steve Prefontaine was their student, his sister is a friend), Uncle coached the State Champ 6 man football team, his son coaches the just crowns State AAAA Champions, niece played volleyball for the U of O and coached her High School VB team, her husband is the Varsity B-ball Coach. The in-laws, aunts, and uncles all grew up on the family ranch/farm that we still run.

There are some interesting conversations surrounding major metro education practices at our family functions that wouldn't be considered politically correct.


PERS distribution is public info and our 4 senior retirees individual annual income is between $31-$35,000, Oregon's last football coach Mike Bellotti (also a friend) retired a couple years ago and his PERS income is $42,000 A MONTH!

Another friend who started in patrol and ended up being Chief of Police receives $9,200 a month for his 30 years of service.......he retired at 51.

We understand Phys Ed and the PERS plan leading the state into bankruptcy.

[Flash68]

Ya'all's comments on our sh!tty education system is exactly why I paid mucho extra to move to a city where K-12 are pretty much tops in the state and crime is near zero.

Small businesses are the job creators of this country yet Obamacare is gonna excessively tax these small businesses (like mine) so actually LESS net jobs will be created as costs will run higher and companies are already strategizing on how to minimize the damage of this flawed and ridiculous socialistic law.

Like Greg said --- FREE healthcare for all is not free..... job creators will pay.... and less net jobs will be created.

What a joke.

[Mkelcy]

Originally Posted by Flash68

Ya'all's comments on our sh!tty education system is exactly why I paid mucho extra to move to a city where K-12 are pretty much tops in the state and crime is near zero.

Small businesses are the job creators of this country yet Obamacare is gonna excessively tax these small businesses (like mine) so actually LESS net jobs will be created as costs will run higher and companies are already strategizing on how to minimize the damage of this flawed and ridiculous socialistic law.

Like Greg said --- FREE healthcare for all is not free..... job creators will pay.... and less net jobs will be created.

What a joke.

I'm curious. Who do you think pays for the "uninsured" now, who show up at hospital ER's and must be treated?

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by Mkelcy

I'm curious. Who do you think pays for the "uninsured" now, who show up at hospital ER's and must be treated?

We do, of course. And I think it's only going to get worse. Who woulda thought America's healthcare system (the worst in the developed world as far as efficiency and cost) could actually decline....