Somebody FREAKIN shoot me!!!!

[DBasher]

Well said Sieg


Dan

[Bucketlist2012]

Originally Posted by Mkelcy

I can see that. Why would anyone respect a president who, for example, wants to see middle class Americans given a shot at decent wages and living conditions, who believes in education and passing on to our children a planet that's still viable, who respects the fundamental rights of all Americans to marry, serve in the armed forces and be treated with respect, and who thinks that it's not moral to balance the budget on the backs of the elderly through cuts to medicare and social security?

Yes, so much more reflective of American values to gut the safety net (and the promises made over the last 50 years) so we can give tax breaks to the obscenely wealthy and allow capitalists to flourish at the expense of both the country and its citizens.

I live in California, and soon you will see what the super majority does to what is left of the state.

They were going to ask the people about raising taxes...Just wait.They don't have to now..It will be all closed door decisions...They are going to gut Prop. 13.. Why ? To pay for the ballooning budget they cannot afford..For a bullet Train to nowhere...To fund education ? Sure the Professors at the Universities for one. The 300,000 dollar speaking fees for ONE speech at a University...And who gets gutted by repealing Prop 13 ? The old couple living in their home for 30 years living on Social Security...You know, the one's who pay on a 80K home value that will now go up to 400K value just to support failed and outrageous policies...Ya, that sounds moral and compassionate all right. The elderly will pay and some will lose their homes.

And the last 4 years..2 with a full Democratic power ? Paybacks like Solyndra, Nancy Pelosi's Brother in law's Solar company in Nevada that would have to sell a Kilowatt at an outrageous price just to break even, and other "paybacks" to donors that got Obama elected...All before considering working on Jobs and the economy...No transparency...

Then in 2006, Obama says that raising the debt ceiling is UnAmerican and shows that the leader is not doing his job, yet he wants, in 2013, to bypass Congress and to raise the debt ceiling..Not to mention the 16 plus trillion dollar debt that the Interest alone will crush the nation..So now it is not Unamerican ? Which is it, he cannot have both.

And the middle class ? First they want to tax the 1%...Suddenly it became the 2%...I am just waiting for it to be the 10%, and it will, don't fool yourself, it will fall onto the middle class eventually..

Ya, I don't support those policies because I live in a state that is a micro version of things to come...And the nation will follow suit with the policies of California...And with a Super Majority, The democrats will own the bailout of California that they will be asking for from the feds..Because eventually there will be not enough people to bleed dry...

[Bucketlist2012]

P.S. We have all been adults about this thread, and let's keep it that way.

It is good to have the discussion, but as long as we moderate ourselves, the site moderators won't have to ..

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Bucketlist2012

And who gets gutted by repealing Prop 13 ? The old couple living in their home for 30 years living on Social Security...You know, the one's who pay on a 80K home value that will now go up to 400K value just to support failed and outrageous policies...Ya, that sounds moral and compassionate all right. The elderly will pay and some will lose their homes.

Here's the problem with LAWS.... they tend to be too broad - and all encompassing.

PROP 13 was meant to protect against what you're saying.... the problem is - like rent controlled apartments etc - and SS - and Medicare/Medicaid et al -- is that there aren't the proper selections and controls in place to protect/help those that the law intended to -- while limiting the "help" to those that don't need it. People will ALWAYS take advantage of anything "FREE". We all know there is no real "FREE" -- there is no "FREE" healthcare -- it's free to someone but costs someone else...

Here's where I'm TOTALLY democratic -- I think the elderly and the poor - and the incapable should get MORE help..... and those that can afford to forego such help should. A millionaire living in a house for 25 years shouldn't get a friggin' property tax break.... he shouldn't get SS or Medicare either...

BUT until you fix crap like that -- the REPUBLICAN in me says STOP SPENDING. When you put limits on things -- THEN we'll actually have to figure out a budget etc that does what it's SUPPOSE TO DO. Then everyone will be better off.

BUT I HATE the "democratic" version of everyone gets something for nothing - don't cut anything - just spend spend spend and screw the rich idiots (that EMPLOY the democrats).

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Sieg

I'm definitely middle class and don't see any action that will help middle class America. I see a lot of smoke being blown up naïve orifices. Decent wages and living conditions start with jobs. Jobs start with embracing small businesses with incentive programs to create jobs.

I see middle-American's getting back-doored with hidden taxes in the form a rate increases from the over-staffed over-paid bureaucracies. Small businesses that aren't unionized will continue to be handicapped with unrealistic sub-contractor compliance regulations. Health care costs for small business and individuals packaged with poor service quality will continue to escalate.

Our children are 11 & 14 and while our schools are better than average, they don't generate a good education. They teach mediocrity, entitlement, and poor fundamental manners (behavior/attire/responsibility/etc.)

They learn that respect is not earned it's an entitlement. They learn that an 8 month 32 hour 5 day work week is too much. They learn how to supplement holiday leave with fictional days off. They learn that Mac is superior to the PC platform. They learn how to solicit for donations. They learn that obese is the norm. They lean that pizza, nacho's, and soda are good nutrition. The learn that art and music are more important than shop and home economics. They learn that being reprimanded for unacceptable behavior is not that bad. They learn that trying to achieve at higher levels than others is frowned upon. They learn that even if you don't win you still get a trophy and accolades. They learn the American Flag and National Anthem are offensive to others.

They also learn at lunch every day that they are of an ethnicity that isn't worthy of accolades and special accommodations.......and they don't have the right to find it offensive.

I'M GIVING THIS POST A STANDING OVATION!


Why have we become the SILENT MAJORITY???

[Shmoov69]

Nail..... Head..... You HIT it!!!
Don't forget how immensely important sports is as well!!

Originally Posted by Sieg

I'm definitely middle class and don't see any action that will help middle class America. I see a lot of smoke being blown up naïve orifices. Decent wages and living conditions start with jobs. Jobs start with embracing small businesses with incentive programs to create jobs.

I see middle-American's getting back-doored with hidden taxes in the form a rate increases from the over-staffed over-paid bureaucracies. Small businesses that aren't unionized will continue to be handicapped with unrealistic sub-contractor compliance regulations. Health care costs for small business and individuals packaged with poor service quality will continue to escalate.

Our children are 11 & 14 and while our schools are better than average, they don't generate a good education. They teach mediocrity, entitlement, and poor fundamental manners (behavior/attire/responsibility/etc.)

They learn that respect is not earned it's an entitlement. They learn that an 8 month 32 hour 5 day work week is too much. They learn how to supplement holiday leave with fictional days off. They learn that Mac is superior to the PC platform. They learn how to solicit for donations. They learn that obese is the norm. They lean that pizza, nacho's, and soda are good nutrition. The learn that art and music are more important than shop and home economics. They learn that being reprimanded for unacceptable behavior is not that bad. They learn that trying to achieve at higher levels than others is frowned upon. They learn that even if you don't win you still get a trophy and accolades. They learn the American Flag and National Anthem are offensive to others.

They also learn at lunch every day that they are of an ethnicity that isn't worthy of accolades and special accommodations.......and they don't have the right to find it offensive.

[Mkelcy]

Maybe we just narrow the discussion a bit and take it point by point: Obama wants to continue the Bush tax cuts for everyone making less that $250,000/year. Does anyone here object to that?

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Mkelcy

Maybe we just narrow the discussion a bit and take it point by point: Obama wants to continue the Bush tax cuts for everyone making less that $250,000/year. Does anyone here object to that?

NOPE! Not as long as it comes with SPENDING CUTS. And that's the bargaining chip. Higher taxes are FINE IF they come with entitlement cuts.

Obviously that's where the two idiot sides need to get their shiat together.

As stated earlier -- NOT entitlement cuts that hurt the people that need them.

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

NOPE! Not as long as it comes with SPENDING CUTS. And that's the bargaining chip. Higher taxes are FINE IF they come with entitlement cuts.

Obviously that's where the two idiot sides need to get their shiat together.

As stated earlier -- NOT entitlement cuts that hurt the people the need them.

REAL spending cuts. Not Washingtons "spending cuts". Cuts to what you're actually spending today, not cuts to future growth that still mean we're spending more tomorrow than today, we just don't increase it as much.

Mike, I'm for giving your side everything they want that's constitutional. Let's find out if the Dems/Obamas vision to fix the economy will work. Best case, it works which benefits everyone and we all learn something. Worst case, the economy crashes, and again we learn something. Just make sure that everyone knows who's plan is being followed so there's no confusion or blame put on the other side if it doesn't work as planned.

[Mkelcy]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

NOPE! Not as long as it comes with SPENDING CUTS. And that's the bargaining chip. Higher taxes are FINE IF they come with entitlement cuts.

Obviously that's where the two idiot sides need to get their shiat together.

As stated earlier -- NOT entitlement cuts that hurt the people the need them.

I'm not sure I understand why you want to go after "entitlements" rather than, say, bullet trains or military spending.

I'm going to retire in a few years, with some savings both after tax and tax deferred. My savings are probably enough that I might be hit by your desire for a need test on benefits that I will have paid for for over 50 years. Why is that the best way to reduce the debt?

Moreover, I don't see anything in the Republican plans that looks like a needs test, all I see is across the board cuts. Again, why is that the best way to reduce the deficit, particularly while resisting any change to the top tax rates?

Tax savings for the 1% aren't going to be immediately recirculated in the economy because the 1% simply don't need that money day-to-day; tax savings for the 99%, on the other hand, are likely going to be spent and help the economy.

I agree there's a lot of government waste but most of what people are talking about here (Solyndra, Obama phones, Medicare disability payments) is down in the budgetary noise. If you want to reduce the deficit, increase taxes, reduce military spending and invest in this country (decent education, infrastructure and, yes, alternative energy), so we can increase GDP and, as a result, the taxable base.