Road Race Camaro.. TT Block Choice?

[gearhead1186]

Since its a road course car, the ls7 appeals to me since it has dry sump oiling but Im kinda scared to put too much boost through it. ls2 has a little more meat on it.

Any opinions? 800rwhp is fine with me.

[Blown353]

Originally Posted by camcojb

I don't think you need an aftermarket block at 1000 hp, Kurt (W2W) had no problem with my stock LS2 block at that level. Still doesn't as he's spec'd another for Troy at 800 rwhp with the stock LS2 block, no ERL prep, nada.

My two cents.................

Jody

Yep. I told Kurt I wanted about 800rwhp on pump gas for my new turbo LS2 (that's about 950 crank)...

Kurt spec'd me a STOCK block and a STOCK GM crank.

Kurt said both the factory block and crank will be plenty adequate at this power level, he has used the both reliably above this power level and advised me to save my money or spend it elsewhere.

As you approach 1350 hp / 20 psi of boost or so, a stock 4-bolt LS can start pushing coolant out-- that's where the LSx and 6 bolt heads shine.

Kurt is modifying my LS2 block with piston oil squirters though-- I asked if he could modify the block with squirters and he said yes-- so I said go for it. They are a very good idea for any forced induction build-- nearly all factory FI engines have piston squirters. The new NASCAR blocks have 2 squirters per cylinder. If you're going to track the thing, you absolutely positively want them! Really helps the pistons out and also keeps detonation away by maintaining piston temps.

With 1000fwhp on a track, I hope you are planning on a very large cooling system. Cooling 1000hp in a prolonged sustained use environment is NOT going to be an easy task...

[BBC69Camaro]

Originally Posted by Blown353

With 1000fwhp on a track, I hope you are planning on a very large cooling system. Cooling 1000hp in a prolonged sustained use environment is NOT going to be an easy task...

I have always wondered what those guys do for prolonged cooling, especially in a hot climate.

[Blown353]

Originally Posted by BBC69Camaro

I have always wondered what those guys do for prolonged cooling, especially in a hot climate.

...and especially forced induction. Keeping forced-induction anything on a road course happy is a challenge. Once heat soak starts setting in you start hurting things, typically from detonation.

A large radiator with ample airflow, large intercooler with ample airflow, large oil cooler with ample airflow, power steering cooler, and a way to exchange enough underhood air to avoid creating a "superheated" underhood enviornment but in such a way to avoid creating too much front end lift are all important. Not to mention shielding all the radiant heat sources in a turbo car so they don't bake all the more fragile bits under the hood when they are glowing orange for an entire track session.

Keeping a naturally aspirated car happy on a roadcourse isn't too bad usually; size the radiator right, size the oil cooler right, put on a good water pump and shield the plug wires and anything else that might melt from the radiated heat from the headers that will be scorching hot for 20-30 minutes straight and go try it. Add boost and you just upped the heat load on the engine & oil cooling system, so you might have to grow those components. You also just increased the amount of radiant heat under the hood, especially if using turbos. And now you have to fit an intercooler in that's large enough such that the intake temps don't heatsoak from prolonged boost-making engine load conditions, and chances are that intercooler is mounted up front and is now raising the temp of the air that flows through the radiator & oil coolers, reducing their efficiency, so you might need to move the intercooler or make the radiator & oil cooler bigger still... it's really fun shaking down a forced induction car for roadcourse duty.

I think we went through 3 radiator / oil cooler / intercooler variations on a friend's Procharged 5.0 track-day beater until it finally made it through a 30 minute track session without overheating something.

[gearhead1186]

thanks. great info. just thinking more and more about the car, what Ill use it for, making sure not to get carried away... 700-800 rwhp is more then enough with me.

Im sure an ls7 can be built to that power level breathing on its own. Heck, just for arguments sake, it can always be sprayed a bit for a nice dyno print out.

Heck, worst case scenario, it doesnt take much boost to get an ls7 to 700-800 rwhp. Im sure that wont be AS BAD as some twin turbo car running around the track with glowing headers.

Thanks again.

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by gearhead1186

700-800 rwhp is more then enough with me.

Im sure an ls7 can be built to that power level breathing on its own.

I'm gonna say you'll have a tough time getting a naturally aspirated LS7 to 700-800 rwhp. With some nitrous, yeah. If you prefer track duty over street duty drop the 700-800 rwhp goal and build a solid 500-550 rwhp LS7 combo with the proper coolers for oil, ps, etc. and go have a blast. It will be a much better car on the track, easier to drive, easier on parts, and likely faster on a road course than an 800 rwhp monster. Work on reducing weight, getting the car balanced, proper suspension, and most importantly the driver factor................ a great driver can kick ass in a rental car...........

If the track will only be a small portion of what you do with the car and you need that power, then forced induction is the way to go.



Jody

[gearhead1186]

thanks jody. it wont be a dedicated track car, its just something I would like to do with the car and be somewhat "competitive." Im not gonna cry at night if it has a 51/49 weight distribution, I plan on a/c, a reasonable sound system, etc, etc.

I guess with that in mind, using a procharger or twin screw pushing not more than 10lbs should be more than enough on a forged ls7.

which type of blower would be most suited for track duty?
as I recall, you cant get the eaton 2300 unless you go through australia. so that pretty much just leaves the procharger if im correct?

thanks again for your help.

[tyoneal]

Originally Posted by gearhead1186

Im building a 69 camaro with a max-g chassis frame. Its going to be a road course/street car. My goals is ~1000fwhp using and ls platform and twin turbos backed by a paddle shifted 4l80e.

Here is the pickle Im in. At that power level I have 3 choices of blocks..

1) GMPP Iron LSX --$2g ---- about 215lbs after machining
2) ERL prepped LS2 http://www.erlperformance.com/ -- $5200g ready for crank ----about 115 lbs after machining
3) LQ9/LQ4 6.0 liter truck block -- about $600 --- about 175lbs after machining

I would love to have an aluminum block since the tt setup will add even more weight but the price is a little extreme. Figuring a machined lsx block will be around 2600, the ERL prepped block is twice as much, another 2600.

Afer maching the LQ9/LQ4 will be about 1g and the ERL prepped block will cost me 4200 more.

Whats your opinion? I dont need to break any records, but I would like to be competitive in the road course. Iron or aluminum over the nose of the car?

====================================
The TT's are going to cost some bucks. Look at the engines Schwartz manufacturing makes. They are biult right, but your also looking at $22K worth of greenbacks. They have the power and are priced fairly.

1) The money that it will take to build the beast you want right, I think might be considerably higher than what your budgeting. (This does not include the Magicians who can build these on their own, and make them work right.)

2) If you really want a good road racing car, spend 80% of your money on the suspension and 20% on the engine. Recently I have found that a well sorted out car with 250 hp to the ground, can play hell with someone with 500 hp to the ground, and that doesn't even come near the 1000hp you are speaking of. With that hp, Drag Racing or Bonneville would be the right place for those types of engines.

What do the rest think, does this sound correct?

Ty


I think you might have one other issue to deal with.

[gearhead1186]

yes, thanks. If you read the above posts, I have since adjusted my goals and plans for the car.

I am leaning towards a n/a ls7 with 600rwhp with some juice for the heck of it.

or

a supercharged ls7 pushing no more than 10lbs of boost.

dont need more than 700rwhp.

what my question is now... being that the eaton 2300 isnt available to the public, im assuming the procharger is my only option. just want to make sure it will be reliable enough if i go the f/i route.

[gearhead1186]

Yes, thank you. I remember reading that. I stand corrected.

Now that we have that out of the way, which blower is better suited for road racing.. the harrop 2300 or say a d1 or f1 procharger?

In regards to the ls7/ls3.. the wet sump on the ls3 can be converted to the ls7's dry sump correct? All thats needed is a longer crank, ls7 pump, timing cover etc? If thats the case I would gladly trade a couple cubes for a block with more meat.

Thanks again.