Ok Builders, I need some input... (pics)

[SVPJason]

Originally Posted by ccracin

Jason / Paul,

First, I mean no disrespect at all and I agree there is a right way and the fast way. In my first post I was just trying to say there should be some target and preferably in writing. It looks like you have been doing this for awhile, therefore I still believe you should be able to put some legitimate estimates to this work no matter how bad the car gets. Progress meetings can take care of that and it sounds like you do that. I'm just saying formalize it. Just saying you never know what you get into so I won't give an estimate is a cop out in my opinion. From the pictures, you have been around the block and should have an idea of what it takes to fix everything you have encountered. I estimate the cost of building 1 off million dollar pieces of equipment on a regular basis. If I told my customers this hasn't been done before so I can't put a number on it, I would never get an order. That's just not how business is done and saying you can't put a price or time limit on art is just a bad TV cliche. In the end I am not trying to argue, I'm just trying give another point of view. I certainly can understand the customer being anxious. You are building one bad a$$ ride for him and hopefully he won't push it and cost the overall project. I think my point is made and I don't want continue beating this nag.

On a side note, where in Birmingham are you guys? I graduated from Pelham High School. I lived in the B'ham area for 3 years as a transplant because of my Dad's job. I loved it. Maybe I'll get back there someday.

Later,

No offence taken, that's why I said positive or negative input. I understand where your coming from...

thanks

We're about 30 mile east of B'ham off of I20..

Last question....can you give me the info on those exhaust tips? I'm "in the market" and like those.....

actually they are magnaflow...

[skatinjay27]

yea in one of the pics you can faintly see the magnaflow lable etched on them.

[tjbruning]

Originally Posted by skatinjay27

yea in one of the pics you can faintly see the magnaflow lable etched on them.

to totally derail this thread...

[SVPJason]

you have hijacked this this thread and you must die... bwuuuhahahahaha...

[chicane]

Wow... I have to giggle on this one a little.

I mean... eighteen months ago you were delivered a well disguised bag of sh*t. In that eighteen months... you basically did a "Frame off" restoration, to the likes that no one has seen before and would never try to begin with... and then I hear that the game plan has changed whilst in route to it's end game ?? Oh... and don't tell me... you are also running a business and he isn't your only customer ??

And... somehow, this is your fault ??


That's comedy. You should tell him that he's lucky it has only been eighteen months with a two man crew. Especially considering what it is that you have actually accomplished.

Tell him he should check out Lateral-G.net, Pro-Touring.com and introduce himself... and then suggest that he educate himself to the logic and common sense involved with a project of this magnitude. And...

We'll take care of the rest.


Seriously. You need to make him aware that if this requires you to push some other work aside to meet his deadline of SEMA 2009... that you will need to adjust the rate at which you charge to do said work. Personally, I would adopt my theory for correcting the scale...

For example:

Normal rate: $75 an hour

You want it tomorrow: $100

You want it today: $150 an hour

You want it when !?!! : $!?!! an hour


If a client wants exclusivity... the client will have to pay the exclusivity tax.

BTW... nice work. The late model tunnel idea gets props. Kudos

[ironworks]

Originally Posted by chicane

Wow... I have to giggle on this one a little.

I mean... eighteen months ago you were delivered a well disguised bag of sh*t. In that eighteen months... you basically did a "Frame off" restoration, to the likes that no one has seen before and would never try to begin with... and then I hear that the game plan has changed whilst in route to it's end game ?? Oh... and don't tell me... you are also running a business and he isn't your only customer ??

And... somehow, this is your fault ??


That's comedy. You should tell him that he's lucky it has only been eighteen months with a two man crew. Especially considering what it is that you have actually accomplished.

Tell him he should check out Lateral-G.net, Pro-Touring.com and introduce himself... and then suggest that he educate himself to the logic and common sense involved with a project of this magnitude. And...

We'll take care of the rest.


Seriously. You need to make him aware that if this requires you to push some other work aside to meet his deadline of SEMA 2009... that you will need to adjust the rate at which you charge to do said work. Personally, I would adopt my theory for correcting the scale...

For example:

Normal rate: $75 an hour

You want it tomorrow: $100

You want it today: $150 an hour

You want it when !?!! : $!?!! an hour


If a client wants exclusivity... the client will have to pay the exclusivity tax.

BTW... nice work. The late model tunnel idea gets props. Kudos

Very Well said, sounds like a deal to me....

[J2SpeedandCustom]

Nice work!

Just out of curiosity what was or is the customers budget? What were/are his expectations for the car?

From my experience customers have "scope" creep, which means they continually think about new or different things to do. The problem with that is what you are facing right now he doesn't understand what those changes mean in time and money. Communication is key and it sounds like you both aren't on the same page. Remember it's "his" car so getting on the same page, with the same goal is paramount. Building a car is all about comprimises if he wants it done for a show, then a path needs to be laid out for him to get to that goal. He will realize once shown what the car will look like going down that path. And he may be alright with that...

[tellyv]

I'd get paid up to date and tell him to take the car elsewhere. He'll probably screw you over in the end.

[ccracin]

Originally Posted by J2SpeedandCustom

From my experience customers have "scope" creep, which means they continually think about new or different things to do. The problem with that is what you are facing right now he doesn't understand what those changes mean in time and money. Communication is key and it sounds like you both aren't on the same page. Remember it's "his" car so getting on the same page, with the same goal is paramount. Building a car is all about comprimises if he wants it done for a show, then a path needs to be laid out for him to get to that goal. He will realize once shown what the car will look like going down that path. And he may be alright with that...

[10Seconds]

Originally Posted by ccracin

I hope I don't upset folks here, but this very issue has been a subject of conversation in my group of friends lately. I somewhat disagree with the previous posters. It seems to me that there are two things that don't usually go together in this business, talented craftsmen and businessmen. This car has only been in your shop too long if it has! I know that sounds stupid. Stick with me. What did you 2 agree on originally? If it was 12 months lets say, it has been there too long. It seems written estimates and quotes are very scarce when it comes to building cars. You imply that the car was not as it was suppose to be when you dug into it. IMO you should have stopped and amended the "written" agreement at that point. If the customer felt it was too much than he has the option to stop. If you have a contract it is up to both parties to live up to it. If the customer stops paying than again you update the contract with the new ETD. After all, if this is your business than you should handle it as such. In most cases when I have read and heard about cars being in prison in a shop, there were no contracts. If there is no target then how are you going to get there? Oh, and I can't stand when I hear how many cars guys have to work on and they use that as an excuse for not meeting deadlines. How many can you do with the staff you have? If you have more than you can handle in a reasonable agreed on amount of time, then that is your fault. That is not an acceptable answer to me. I have to determine the work load for my group every time we bid a new job. I give delivery estimates based on hours available. We don't take jobs we can't deliver on. Simple. It just goes back to WHAT DID YOU GUYS AGREE ON? If the answer is it was a verbal discussion, then I would say you have a problem. I don't see a good ending for either side. I would do what you can to stay professional and get to the end. Oh and I speak from personal experience. We had a "verbal" deal to have a specific amount of work done on our truck for "X" dollars and "X" weeks. In the end it was "2X" dollars an "12X" weeks. No exaggeration. Anyway, I'll get off my soap box. It looks like you do good work, I wish you the best of luck.

Respectfully,

I agree, too often in this business things are done verbally and without proper scopes of work. Everyone needs to be better in this regard because it is important to remember that the people that can afford to just pay someone to build the car like this can also afford to hire attorneys when they feel slighted and believe me they will. I actually know a guy in that position and I talked to the guy who was suing to see if he was open to a settlement. His response: "I don't want money, I have money - I want to see that SOB broke and out on the street. I don't care what it costs."

Obviously, not everyone is like that, but having a paper trail in place can only help you in these situations.

It also does another thing - it helps manage the customers expectations. As they are constantly having to sign paperwork, it makes them stop and think about things and decide if its really important to them. Most issues like this arise out of a lack of communication. Customer wants car done by X, then decides he also needs a full cage and a 4-link rear suspension. If your answer is "no problem" or something like that, then in the customer's mind, you can still get it done on time. So making them sign something saying they understand that this is a significant change and that it will cause the project to take x days longer is going to benefit you.

Lastly, if a shop takes on too much work and a customer who is paying and current on their bills has every right to be frustrated when they stop by and see that no work has been done on their car. That situation is not their fault.