Calling ALL pro's, I JUST CANT TAKE IT ANYMORE!

[camaro1969]

Originally Posted by thedude327

Looks like a bad starter. Also check your timing next time the engine is running because it looks like the flywheel is trying to spin backwards indicating base timing is off.

Paul

timing was dont after the video..

and as you can see the pinion hits the flywheel, it moves the flywheel, like a pushing motion, and u can see the flywheel move a tad..

battery is connected to starter, and then 12gauge to the alternator from there, the battery is fully charged also.

BTW it is a new mini starter, the other one i got rid of after giving me so many problems, ended up being a issue with the pinion being bent, which i assume was after all the times the flywheel would backfire!

[thedude327]

Originally Posted by camaro1969

timing was dont after the video..

and as you can see the pinion hits the flywheel, it moves the flywheel, like a pushing motion, and u can see the flywheel move a tad..

battery is connected to starter, and then 12gauge to the alternator from there, the battery is fully charged also.

BTW it is a new mini starter, the other one i got rid of after giving me so many problems, ended up being a issue with the pinion being bent, which i assume was after all the times the flywheel would backfire!

Base timing being too far advanced will cause a kickback problem that will damage the starters pinion gear/bendix assembly. Get a buddy to sit in the drivers seat with the engine idling in gear and the vacuum line to the distributor removed and plugged and check your base timing. It should be no more than 12 degrees advanced especially if you are running a compression ratio over 10:1 on your engine. Oh and one of your other vids showed a backfire through the carb which is caused by the wrong timing setting.
Good Luck!!
Paul

[camaro1969]

Originally Posted by thedude327

Base timing being too far advanced will cause a kickback problem that will damage the starters pinion gear/bendix assembly. Get a buddy to sit in the drivers seat with the engine idling in gear and the vacuum line to the distributor removed and plugged and check your base timing. It should be no more than 12 degrees advanced especially if you are running a compression ratio over 10:1 on your engine. Oh and one of your other vids showed a backfire through the carb which is caused by the wrong timing setting.
Good Luck!!
Paul

idle without vacuum is 18 and 35 at 3000 rpm.. the older videos are from 2009, i fixed those problems.....i hope...

[T_Raven]

If a starter will kick out like that but only spin sometimes, it's bad contacts in the solenoid. The solenoid has two functions, move the bendix gear out, and at the same time, there's a plate that completes the circuit between the two big studs on the solenoid.

[camaro1969]

Originally Posted by T_Raven

If a starter will kick out like that but only spin sometimes, it's bad contacts in the solenoid. The solenoid has two functions, move the bendix gear out, and at the same time, there's a plate that completes the circuit between the two big studs on the solenoid.

never thought of that, like usually i will turn the key, and it will make that noise of hitting the flywheel, so i get outta the car, take a breaker bar and move the engine by hand, and then crank again, and usually it wont work, so i try again..

I never had THIS issue with my other starters, but I will take a look at my connection, does this mean my solenoid on the starter is no good, or just needs a better connection?

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Greg, now now, Paul meant well! i really appreciate all the support, at this point im taking all your guy's suggestions into consideration

[GregWeld]

Vic ---

I know people mean well... and usually bite my tongue - but bad info is not what this forum is all about. And that was just plain BS info wise. Can't have people come on here and put up info that might be taken as "gospel" by some less knowledgeable person. We have to remember that LOTS of people read this stuff -- and many aren't members even... Any given day - there are usually more people reading than there are members.... So you (not you personally) post up crap info and people go way either thinking that Lat G is a bunch of bozos and not worth joining -- or newbies go away with some garbage info stuck in their sweet little heads.


Almost ANY of the real gearheads on here - would tell you (confirm) that Pauls timing statement is just BS. I don't know where he got that - I've certainly NEVER heard a rule like that - EVER... and I've been doing this stuff for going on 40 years now... lots of motors - lots of races - lots of car builds... I'm sure he meant well - and probably believes his statement - but he shouldn't because it's not correct.

[ccracin]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Vic ---

I know people mean well... and usually bite my tongue - but bad info is not what this forum is all about. And that was just plain BS info wise. Can't have people come on here and put up info that might be taken as "gospel" by some less knowledgeable person. We have to remember that LOTS of people read this stuff -- and many aren't members even... Any given day - there are usually more people reading than there are members.... So you (not you personally) post up crap info and people go way either thinking that Lat G is a bunch of bozos and not worth joining -- or newbies go away with some garbage info stuck in their sweet little heads.


Almost ANY of the real gearheads on here - would tell you (confirm) that Pauls timing statement is just BS. I don't know where he got that - I've certainly NEVER heard a rule like that - EVER... and I've been doing this stuff for going on 40 years now... lots of motors - lots of races - lots of car builds... I'm sure he meant well - and probably believes his statement - but he shouldn't because it's not correct.

Well said Greg. I agree that piece of info is as far from the truth as it can be! Go to any Dirt Late Model race and you will see 14:1 motors locked out at 30+ degrees. An engine is an assembly of systems that need to work correctly for the whole to work. One problem can be caused directly by another. A thorough walk through of one thing at a time verifying each area is correct no matter how insignificant it may seem is sometimes the only way to solve an issue you have been working on for a long time. When frustration sets in you start going blind. (Figuratively) Step back and start at the beginning. I don't car how many starters you bought, get another one. Start over with the alignment and go from there. Breathe and take it one step at a time, but do it with a different starter. Good luck.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by thedude327

Base timing being too far advanced will cause a kickback problem that will damage the starters pinion gear/bendix assembly. Get a buddy to sit in the drivers seat with the engine idling in gear and the vacuum line to the distributor removed and plugged and check your base timing. It should be no more than 12 degrees advanced especially if you are running a compression ratio over 10:1 on your engine. Oh and one of your other vids showed a backfire through the carb which is caused by the wrong timing setting.
Good Luck!!
Paul

Really...... So the 30* locked out timing on my race car engine running 13:1 is just all wrong. Geez.... who knew?

Paul - Not sure where you've gotten this information on base timing but it's just flat incorrect.

[thedude327]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Really...... So the 30* locked out timing on my race car engine running 13:1 is just all wrong. Geez.... who knew?

Paul - Not sure where you've gotten this information on base timing but it's just flat incorrect.

Greg,

I'm just getting back to this thread only to find you have thrown me under the bus. Look, 12 degrees base timing is a good setting for a street engine. With his first starter damaged and his vid showing a backfire, it looks like his base timing was too far advanced causing a kickback damaging the starter. Now are you trying to compare a street engine to a race engine that may run down the quarter mile for 10 seconds under full throttle? Here's a real world example........look at the GM performance parts catalog which lists base timing recommendations for all of it's crate engine at 10 degrees. Why do they do this? Because they are want their customers to have a good running engines in their street cars without detonation. Now lets talk about what happens when you advance an engines timing, the spark occurs before the piston reaches TDC on the compression stroke. This works well at higher rpms but can cause problems at lower rpms and if too far advanced, can cause kickback during cranking damaging starters.

Paul

[Vegas69]

It really depends on the engine. A factory type engine with a small camshaft is going to deliver higher cranking compression. A bunch of initial timing is going to shorten the life of the starter. I've always run 18-23 degrees of initial but my cam is more than likely much larger than Vic's.