Why are people throwing a minitub and tires and calling it a pro touring?

[bret]

Reminds me of the Pro Street days in the 80's. Those cars were built to emulate a Pro Stock car...with the most visible and tangible change being a set of 15x33 Mickey Thompson tires. Hell, Rick Dobbertin [after building 2 of the most elaborate and hi profile Pro Street cars in the world, built a front wheel drive Grand Am with a big set of Mickeys under the back [leaving it front wheel drive with no other changes], and made several magazine articles!

Our cars are built to emulate a road race car...with the most visible and tangible change being a set of 17-18" wheels. Lots of people just want that "look" and cannot afford/don't want to make further investment in their cars.

Having experienced [and participated in] both movements...the "pro touring" movement is much more sensible [so far]. Our current trend of car building offers much less compromise than the old Pro Street cars. Bigger tires, bigger brakes, bigger suspensions, bigger engines all improve the overall driving experience with [usually] no compromise.

I'm good with all of it. Thank goodness for individualism and the ability to express such!

[JeffT]

Nothing says pro-touring like a set of weld on ladder bars!!! Guy had a drag car, put some 18's on it and now it's pro-touring...

[daemon2]

Pro Touring:
1. must have a name
2. doesn't rattle
3. no matching numbers
4. has to compete
5.

anyone....

[bret]

Originally Posted by killer69

it is NO different that what happened to "PRO STREET" I was at the drags on saturday and a car in "PRO STREET" ran a 6.39 @ 225.
Really??
I know it is just a Class but that is as fast as some "PRO MODS"ran 4 years ago.
You will see it happen here too, the American Street Car Series will need to split up the cars as more "Race" cars show up, no disrespect to race cars I happen to Prefer them. But it makes it hard to keep the field level, most guys do not have the money, time or knoweledge to run a Racecar but the few who do will push it to and beyond the current limit and everyone will whine and the promoters will have to make different classes otherwise the lowbuck guy, who actually pays the events bills will stop showing up.

so where DO you draw the line ... at both ends? good question? I don't have a good answer.

I see the inevitability of this as well. How do you fight it? Well, maybe by redefining "success".

Being the contrarian that I am, I am now piddling with a 72 Chevelle that I will be making small, inexpensive changes to make it drive more like my new CTSV. Its a 350/350 A/C car...every GM dealer had anywhere from 15-50 on their lot at any one time in '72.
It runs like a top so I won't even open the hood. The handling, seats, and steering wheel suck the worst so a set of 5 series BMW seats from the swap meet, a set of our new stand alone shocks [retaining the oem springs and control arms], our taller RideTech spindles [to lower the car and improve the camber curve, better swaybars, Delrin bushings for the oem control arms, and a Momo steering wheel [because I love the way they feel] is the primary game plan. No plans to change the 15" rallye wheels [although I'll have to hunt for some decent tires soon] or the factory disc brakes. No, it will likely not keep up with my 66 Chevelle on the track, but at 70mph on the highway it will drive like a dream! Lets face it...most of us spend a whole lot more time there than on the track anyhow. I really think I can accomplish all this for well under $2,000, plus my installation time. We'll see...I'll document the time and the cost.

[Track Junky]

Originally Posted by killer69

it is NO different that what happened to "PRO STREET" I was at the drags on saturday and a car in "PRO STREET" ran a 6.39 @ 225.
Really??
I know it is just a Class but that is as fast as some "PRO MODS"ran 4 years ago.
You will see it happen here too, the American Street Car Series will need to split up the cars as more "Race" cars show up, no disrespect to race cars I happen to Prefer them. But it makes it hard to keep the field level, most guys do not have the money, time or knoweledge to run a Racecar but the few who do will push it to and beyond the current limit and everyone will whine and the promoters will have to make different classes otherwise the lowbuck guy, who actually pays the events bills will stop showing up.

so where DO you draw the line ... at both ends? good question? I don't have a good answer.

The simple answer would be to seperate by horsepower to weight ratio.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by bret

I see the inevitability of this as well. How do you fight it? Well, maybe by redefining "success".

Being the contrarian that I am, I am now piddling with a 72 Chevelle that I will be making small, inexpensive changes to make it drive more like my new CTSV. Its a 350/350 A/C car...every GM dealer had anywhere from 15-50 on their lot at any one time in '72.
It runs like a top so I won't even open the hood. The handling, seats, and steering wheel suck the worst so a set of 5 series BMW seats from the swap meet, a set of our new stand alone shocks [retaining the oem springs and control arms], our taller RideTech spindles [to lower the car and improve the camber curve, better swaybars, Delrin bushings for the oem control arms, and a Momo steering wheel [because I love the way they feel] is the primary game plan. No plans to change the 15" rallye wheels [although I'll have to hunt for some decent tires soon] or the factory disc brakes. No, it will likely not keep up with my 66 Chevelle on the track, but at 70mph on the highway it will drive like a dream! Lets face it...most of us spend a whole lot more time there than on the track anyhow. I really think I can accomplish all this for well under $2,000, plus my installation time. We'll see...I'll document the time and the cost.

What a great plan Bret! And you're right on. Most of the time is spent doing 65 MPH or less...

[Vegas69]

There is no definition for protouring. Just build your car and forget it.

[lutzy]

Originally Posted by daemon2

Pro Touring:
1. must have a name
2. doesn't rattle
3. no matching numbers
4. has to compete
5.

anyone....

5. Cost almost as much as a house?

[irishlsxer]

anyone agree that there are levels of pro touring? i personally think even if youre running hotchkis tvs or something with the intention of better handling it has some percentage of pt in it. the more you compete though definitely the more pt street cred ya got. even within the cars themselves that can be considered pt-ing, there's grey area; that big two tone 80's caddy built a decade ago? the guy doing the porsche with the vette drive? the bottom line is good lateral dynamics where once there was none, right?

probably more food for thought than actual answers, but for the record, big shiny wheels, even if mini tubbed, dont cut it, the term itself is definitely being thrown around a good bit in the name of sales.

[John510]

Anything modified from stock to run better is pro touring in my book