Somebody FREAKIN shoot me!!!!

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Sieg

I'm definitely middle class and don't see any action that will help middle class America. I see a lot of smoke being blown up naïve orifices. Decent wages and living conditions start with jobs. Jobs start with embracing small businesses with incentive programs to create jobs.

I see middle-American's getting back-doored with hidden taxes in the form a rate increases from the over-staffed over-paid bureaucracies. Small businesses that aren't unionized will continue to be handicapped with unrealistic sub-contractor compliance regulations. Health care costs for small business and individuals packaged with poor service quality will continue to escalate.

Our children are 11 & 14 and while our schools are better than average, they don't generate a good education. They teach mediocrity, entitlement, and poor fundamental manners (behavior/attire/responsibility/etc.)

They learn that respect is not earned it's an entitlement. They learn that an 8 month 32 hour 5 day work week is too much. They learn how to supplement holiday leave with fictional days off. They learn that Mac is superior to the PC platform. They learn how to solicit for donations. They learn that obese is the norm. They lean that pizza, nacho's, and soda are good nutrition. The learn that art and music are more important than shop and home economics. They learn that being reprimanded for unacceptable behavior is not that bad. They learn that trying to achieve at higher levels than others is frowned upon. They learn that even if you don't win you still get a trophy and accolades. They learn the American Flag and National Anthem are offensive to others.

They also learn at lunch every day that they are of an ethnicity that isn't worthy of accolades and special accommodations.......and they don't have the right to find it offensive.

I'M GIVING THIS POST A STANDING OVATION!


Why have we become the SILENT MAJORITY???

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

I'M GIVING THIS POST A STANDING OVATION!


Why have we become the SILENT MAJORITY???

Because our kids educators instill it in them from grade school on. But only in the larger cities, rural farming communities still have core values harmonious with those of our founding fathers.

Reality is we are not the majority any more.

[Shmoov69]

Nail..... Head..... You HIT it!!!
Don't forget how immensely important sports is as well!!

Originally Posted by Sieg

I'm definitely middle class and don't see any action that will help middle class America. I see a lot of smoke being blown up naïve orifices. Decent wages and living conditions start with jobs. Jobs start with embracing small businesses with incentive programs to create jobs.

I see middle-American's getting back-doored with hidden taxes in the form a rate increases from the over-staffed over-paid bureaucracies. Small businesses that aren't unionized will continue to be handicapped with unrealistic sub-contractor compliance regulations. Health care costs for small business and individuals packaged with poor service quality will continue to escalate.

Our children are 11 & 14 and while our schools are better than average, they don't generate a good education. They teach mediocrity, entitlement, and poor fundamental manners (behavior/attire/responsibility/etc.)

They learn that respect is not earned it's an entitlement. They learn that an 8 month 32 hour 5 day work week is too much. They learn how to supplement holiday leave with fictional days off. They learn that Mac is superior to the PC platform. They learn how to solicit for donations. They learn that obese is the norm. They lean that pizza, nacho's, and soda are good nutrition. The learn that art and music are more important than shop and home economics. They learn that being reprimanded for unacceptable behavior is not that bad. They learn that trying to achieve at higher levels than others is frowned upon. They learn that even if you don't win you still get a trophy and accolades. They learn the American Flag and National Anthem are offensive to others.

They also learn at lunch every day that they are of an ethnicity that isn't worthy of accolades and special accommodations.......and they don't have the right to find it offensive.

[Mkelcy]

Maybe we just narrow the discussion a bit and take it point by point: Obama wants to continue the Bush tax cuts for everyone making less that $250,000/year. Does anyone here object to that?

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Mkelcy

Maybe we just narrow the discussion a bit and take it point by point: Obama wants to continue the Bush tax cuts for everyone making less that $250,000/year. Does anyone here object to that?

NOPE! Not as long as it comes with SPENDING CUTS. And that's the bargaining chip. Higher taxes are FINE IF they come with entitlement cuts.

Obviously that's where the two idiot sides need to get their shiat together.

As stated earlier -- NOT entitlement cuts that hurt the people that need them.

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

NOPE! Not as long as it comes with SPENDING CUTS. And that's the bargaining chip. Higher taxes are FINE IF they come with entitlement cuts.

Obviously that's where the two idiot sides need to get their shiat together.

As stated earlier -- NOT entitlement cuts that hurt the people the need them.

REAL spending cuts. Not Washingtons "spending cuts". Cuts to what you're actually spending today, not cuts to future growth that still mean we're spending more tomorrow than today, we just don't increase it as much.

Mike, I'm for giving your side everything they want that's constitutional. Let's find out if the Dems/Obamas vision to fix the economy will work. Best case, it works which benefits everyone and we all learn something. Worst case, the economy crashes, and again we learn something. Just make sure that everyone knows who's plan is being followed so there's no confusion or blame put on the other side if it doesn't work as planned.

[Mkelcy]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

NOPE! Not as long as it comes with SPENDING CUTS. And that's the bargaining chip. Higher taxes are FINE IF they come with entitlement cuts.

Obviously that's where the two idiot sides need to get their shiat together.

As stated earlier -- NOT entitlement cuts that hurt the people the need them.

I'm not sure I understand why you want to go after "entitlements" rather than, say, bullet trains or military spending.

I'm going to retire in a few years, with some savings both after tax and tax deferred. My savings are probably enough that I might be hit by your desire for a need test on benefits that I will have paid for for over 50 years. Why is that the best way to reduce the debt?

Moreover, I don't see anything in the Republican plans that looks like a needs test, all I see is across the board cuts. Again, why is that the best way to reduce the deficit, particularly while resisting any change to the top tax rates?

Tax savings for the 1% aren't going to be immediately recirculated in the economy because the 1% simply don't need that money day-to-day; tax savings for the 99%, on the other hand, are likely going to be spent and help the economy.

I agree there's a lot of government waste but most of what people are talking about here (Solyndra, Obama phones, Medicare disability payments) is down in the budgetary noise. If you want to reduce the deficit, increase taxes, reduce military spending and invest in this country (decent education, infrastructure and, yes, alternative energy), so we can increase GDP and, as a result, the taxable base.

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by Shmoov69

Nail..... Head..... You HIT it!!!
Don't forget how immensely important sports is as well!!

My wife's side of the family are all rural area working class teachers and the family is three generations deep in teaching. My in-laws were 30 year middle school Physical Education retiree's (Steve Prefontaine was their student, his sister is a friend), Uncle coached the State Champ 6 man football team, his son coaches the just crowns State AAAA Champions, niece played volleyball for the U of O and coached her High School VB team, her husband is the Varsity B-ball Coach. The in-laws, aunts, and uncles all grew up on the family ranch/farm that we still run.

There are some interesting conversations surrounding major metro education practices at our family functions that wouldn't be considered politically correct.


PERS distribution is public info and our 4 senior retirees individual annual income is between $31-$35,000, Oregon's last football coach Mike Bellotti (also a friend) retired a couple years ago and his PERS income is $42,000 A MONTH!

Another friend who started in patrol and ended up being Chief of Police receives $9,200 a month for his 30 years of service.......he retired at 51.

We understand Phys Ed and the PERS plan leading the state into bankruptcy.

[Shmoov69]

My point exactly! The school systems will spend MILLIONS on a freakin football stadium and sports programs so we can focus on sports instead of learning something. Don't get me wrong I LOVE football, but its a freakin sport/hobby that for 99.9999% of kids that "play" won't be able to make a career out of it and support themselves. And if they are good, then they are shuffled thru school and given a free ride to college, where they do it all over again for the same reason not learning a thing and more than likely wont get a job in it. I know there are a few that actually learn and make it in "life", but that should be focused on and taught first! It's sickening how far we have regressed over the last 50ish years!!

Originally Posted by Sieg

My wife's side of the family are all rural area working class teachers and the family is three generations deep in teaching. My in-laws were 30 year middle school Physical Education retiree's (Steve Prefontaine was their student, his sister is a friend), Uncle coached the State Champ 6 man football team, his son coaches the just crowns State AAAA Champions, niece played volleyball for the U of O and coached her High School VB team, her husband is the Varsity B-ball Coach. The in-laws, aunts, and uncles all grew up on the family ranch/farm that we still run.

There are some interesting conversations surrounding major metro education practices at our family functions that wouldn't be considered politically correct.


PERS distribution is public info and our 4 senior retirees individual annual income is between $31-$35,000, Oregon's last football coach Mike Bellotti (also a friend) retired a couple years ago and his PERS income is $42,000 A MONTH!

Another friend who started in patrol and ended up being Chief of Police receives $9,200 a month for his 30 years of service.......he retired at 51.

We understand Phys Ed and the PERS plan leading the state into bankruptcy.

[Flash68]

Ya'all's comments on our sh!tty education system is exactly why I paid mucho extra to move to a city where K-12 are pretty much tops in the state and crime is near zero.

Small businesses are the job creators of this country yet Obamacare is gonna excessively tax these small businesses (like mine) so actually LESS net jobs will be created as costs will run higher and companies are already strategizing on how to minimize the damage of this flawed and ridiculous socialistic law.

Like Greg said --- FREE healthcare for all is not free..... job creators will pay.... and less net jobs will be created.

What a joke.