What would a USCA pro-touring class look like??

[SSLance]

Originally Posted by camcojb

You didn't mention anything about two-seaters being a different class. But I'll give you another example...

DSE's 5th gen Camaro against their own second gen Camaro. Both Camaros, put the same size tires on both (may already be the same, not sure) and the aero, track width, and center of gravity has the 5th gen quite a bit faster on the track. I don't remember the exact times, but DSE's 5th gen was a few seconds faster than their second gen on the road course. I believe they're similar power and both very capable drivers, but the advantages to the later model car are very apparent.

In that example, the 5th gen is a stipped interior race car and the 2nd Gen is a full interior car race car. The 5th Gen may be a touch faster than that 2nd Gen, but it's not night and day faster like if it was paired against an older muscle car on 275s.

A driver change in either of those two Camaros will make more a difference in times ran than mods to an older car on small tires ever will.

Let me put it this way, how many of the older muscle car/PT cars that you are afraid will be run off if they can't compete...run a front tire larger than 275?

[SSLance]

Originally Posted by SSLance

Let me put it this way, how many of the older muscle car/PT cars that you are afraid will be run off if they can't compete...run a front tire larger than 275?

Or... Put both of those cars on 275s...and see then how they run against one another or the rest of the PT cars out there.

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by SSLance

In that example, the 5th gen is a stipped interior race car and the 2nd Gen is a full interior car race car. The 5th Gen may be a touch faster than that 2nd Gen, but it's not night and day faster like if it was paired against an older muscle car on 275s.

A driver change in either of those two Camaros will make more a difference in times ran than mods to an older car on small tires ever will.

Let me put it this way, how many of the older muscle car/PT cars that you are afraid will be run off if they can't compete...run a front tire larger than 275?

The fifth gen is still heavier than the second gen I think, but I'm not positive of that. Both are great drivers, and the fifth gen was several seconds faster on the road course yesterday. I don't think the fifth gen had bigger tires, they both had similar tire widths, put them both on 275's and I don't expect any change in which will be faster.

[camcojb]

Guys,

This is not a complaint thread. I loved the event, Jimi and USCA did a GREAT job, and this one was as fun as all the others I've attended.

I was just wondering what you guys thought of having a muscle car class, and what rules/year cutoffs, etc. would there be if there was one. I think with the current rules and competition, if you want to win the whole deal you're going to be better off with something much past our muscle car era. Although it's cool to see the protouring cars be competitive, I think it's reached the point competition-wise that they're at a big disadvantage against the current group of cars competing.

I do NOT want to see the newer stuff eliminated, they're the best of the best. Watching the Evo launch in the autocross and win the event or watching Danny Popp just drive away from the fastest group in his 2003 Vette was awesome. Just thought it may be cool to have an older car class, say pre-1980 or whatever.

[SSLance]

Originally Posted by camcojb

Guys,

This is not a complaint thread. I loved the event, Jimi and USCA did a GREAT job, and this one was as fun as all the others I've attended.

I was just wondering what you guys thought of having a muscle car class, and what rules/year cutoffs, etc. would there be if there was one. I think with the current rules and competition, if you want to win the whole deal you're going to be better off with something much past our muscle car era. Although it's cool to see the protouring cars be competitive, I think it's reached the point competition-wise that they're at a big disadvantage against the current group of cars competing.

I do NOT want to see the newer stuff eliminated, they're the best of the best. Watching the Evo launch in the autocross and win the event or watching Danny Popp just drive away from the fastest group in his 2003 Vette was awesome. Just thought it may be cool to have an older car class, say pre-1980 or whatever.

I agree completely. They want us to come and participate in their events and we want a place to run and feel like we are at least on the same playing field as others. There has to be a way to make it all work and I'm certain the powers that be are crunching numbers to make it work.

There is no reason that the factory late model cars, stockish appearing muscle (PT) cars, and the outlaw over the top race cars on street tires can't all attend the same types of events and share time running together. We are all there for the same common goal. The ruleset just needs a bit of fine tuning to level the fields a bit.

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by SSLance

I agree completely. They want us to come and participate in their events and we want a place to run and feel like we are at least on the same playing field as others. There has to be a way to make it all work and I'm certain the powers that be are crunching numbers to make it work.

There is no reason that the factory late model cars, stockish appearing muscle (PT) cars, and the outlaw over the top race cars on street tires can't all attend the same types of events and share time running together. We are all there for the same common goal. The ruleset just needs a bit of fine tuning to level the fields a bit.

Yep. "thumbsup: Jimi is committed to this event, and I know he'll continue to improve it. We're getting some ideas here for possible changes to equalize things, or possibly a separate class. I'll make sure he gets our ideas at least for additional input on whatever they decide to do in the future.

It was a GREAT time and I really liked the venue change. Spring Mountain is a beautiful facility, but this has a lot more room and better for spectators in my opinion. I think it went very smooth for the first time with such a big change in venue and doubling of participants. USCA did a great job on this one.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Im all for open track day fun. Times, sure, bragging rights ok. But going out and pushing your abilities as far as driving and construction. Competition on a personal level.

Once competition gets heated it then becomes the guy who can spend the most, recieve the most training and who can do the most delelopment who will blow everyone out.

Once you start instituting rules to make it fair then it becomes who can bend the rules the most without going over and breaking them.

[57hemicuda]

The older I get the more I love anarchy. No more rules!!! When we started all this my biggest fear was a rule book like so many other forms of racing.

If its not the Feds its local government telling me what I have to do. Don't make my hobby the same way. Run what you brung, if it ain't enough then too bad. Take it home and make it faster.

That being said, I started playing in these forums because of my love of Muscle Cars. I truly have no desire to watch late models and ricers race. I can see that any track day on any road course in the United States. What made Lat G and Pro Touring so cool was seeing some of the coolest, nicest Muscle Cars in the country get the crap kicked out of them. Don't know what the answer is but its not more rules. Just my 2 cents.

[SSLance]

That said...Rodney Prouty, Aaron Oberle, Dan Ballard, Dan Howe, Sam and Deb Farrington, Jeff Montgomery, and Jane Thurmond, are just a few of the guys and gals in regular "our type" muscle cars that went to OUSCI this year and from everything I've seen or heard, they had an absolutely fabulous time there. I've seen "Weekend of a lifetime" mentioned several times...

And I suppose that they all ran around mid pack once things were ironed out. All very capable drivers in well sorted out Street Cars... I can't wait for the opportunity to do just the same, regardless of the ruleset.

[Al Moreno]

Originally Posted by camcojb

The fifth gen is still heavier than the second gen I think, but I'm not positive of that. Both are great drivers, and the fifth gen was several seconds faster on the road course yesterday. I don't think the fifth gen had bigger tires, they both had similar tire widths, put them both on 275's and I don't expect any change in which will be faster.

Jody, if I remember correct, Kyle had told me the fifth gen was 3700 plus lbs. They were trying to look for ways to drop weight as its still was a pretty heavy car. So I think your right the fifth gen is heavier but I'm not sure.