OK time for a new rear end suggestions

[Ron Sutton]

Jay offered some excellent, objective advice. Love it.

Ron Myers has a similar semi-floater rear end housing utilizing the C6 bearing/hub ends & we're using it in an offset 3-link install. I like it. I don't know what it costs, but it puts better bearings on the outer ends of the housing for safety reasons. While they're not as heavy duty as the bearings in floater ends, they are a nice step up from the regular roller bearings in 12-Bolts & 9" Fords. Plus they only require occasional inspection for play (wear) & basically no maintenance.

For ultimate safety and the elimination of any brake knock back, a full floating rear end is tops. They use two opposing tapered roller bearings inside a beefy hub that are rated over 2000# each for thrust load. Most of the hard runners in autocross and/or track days have gone this route, or want to. Surprisingly, the cost is a not a lot more when compared to buying a flange axle housing. A complete Speedway Engineering floater rear end housing with axles, hubs, drive plates, bearings, studs, etc is $1299. This is does not include the 3rd member. Moser & Currie offer them for less, but I'm not a fan of the components they use. But if you're on a super tight budget, a complete floater from them is around $950 & better than going with a flange axle & single roller bearing.

Rear brakes were a challenge, but no more. Speedway, Moser & Currie all offer brakes and/or mounts installed ... but only up 12.19" rotors & no parking brake. Wilwood offers a nice street kit for the Speedway Mod-Lite Floater with 12.88" x .81" rotors & parking brakes. These do mount closer out to the wheel for appearance sake. The standard caliper only has 1.96" piston area, but can be upgraded to 2.46" piston area for no charge (requires the thicker pad). The rotor is the medium duty GT version and can not be upgraded to the Spec-37. So think "medium duty" here. I feel it is an excellent brake package for most Pro-Touring cars running autocross often & only occasional track days.

For my clients with a higher priority on performance, we don't run parking brakes for several key reasons.
#1 is they add a LOT of weight in exactly the wrong place ... as the parking brake hat/drum is cast iron ... out at the end of the axle housing. For those that are not familiar with the unsprung weight concept on solid axles, lighter components out on the end of the axle allow the shocks & suspension to respond quicker = more grip. Heavier components out on the end of the axle make the shocks & suspension respond slower = less grip.
#2 is the internal drum style parking brake creates additional friction, drag and heat that we don't want on a performance vehicle.

A trick my clients do, instead of running a parking brake, is to install a drag race style "line lock" solenoid in the brake line (front or rear - doesn't matter) with a regular switch instead of a momentary switch. When the car is parked & the engine if off, they simply leave the car in 1st gear (or park for autos) and the car isn't going to roll away. But they like to let the engine warm up at times ... so they start the car, put it in neutral ... press the brake pedal to apply brake pressure & flip the switch. Viola ... brakes are on. Then they can get out & let the engine run & warm up.

So I created brake kits for floater rear ends that don't have parking brakes, but do use rear racing brake parts like big, race quality brake rotors & calipers. The most common package uses a 13.06" x 1.25" Wilwood Spec-37 rotor and 4-piston Superlite caliper with either 2.46" or 3.00" piston area for serious braking force. These do place the caliper & rotor farther inward, so the appearance doesn't match the fronts. I plan to offer floater brake packages with 14.00" x 1.25" rotors and Aerolite 4P calipers once Wilwood offers the Aerolite 4P in a piston area in the 2.46"-3.00" range.

------------------------------------------------

Regardless of brand, version or source, I personally hope everyone driving their cars hard in autocross & track days go the floater route for both safety sake & the elimination of brake knock back ... which can also be a safety issue.

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

A trick my clients do, instead of running a parking brake[/B], is to install a drag race style "line lock" solenoid in the brake line (front or rear - doesn't matter) with a regular switch instead of a momentary switch. When the car is parked & the engine if off, they simply leave the car in 1st gear (or park for autos) and the car isn't going to roll away. But they like to let the engine warm up at times ... so they start the car, put it in neutral ... press the brake pedal to apply brake pressure & flip the switch. Viola ... brakes are on. Then they can get out & let the engine run & warm up.

Very cool idea, Ron.

[intocarss]

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

[COLOR="Blue"]A trick my clients do, instead of running a parking brake, is to install a drag race style "line lock" solenoid in the brake line (front or rear - doesn't matter) with a regular switch instead of a momentary switch. When the car is parked & the engine if off, they simply leave the car in 1st gear (or park for autos) and the car isn't going to roll away. But they like to let the engine warm up at times ... so they start the car, put it in neutral ... press the brake pedal to apply brake pressure & flip the switch. Viola ... brakes are on. Then they can get out & let the engine run & warm up.

I've liked this idea for years, but was always warned against it. I was told the pressure could bleed off if the car sits for a long while. IMO if the system is sealed it could not bleed off but others disagree, Your thoughts??

[Nativefx]

Ron, as mentioned above I still feel I'm a little overwhelmed with all the information, options, can/can't do options, etc. I am interested in learning more about both Jay's option and the option you mention below for a floater set-up. Although I may not "need" a floater set-up at the moment, if I decide I want to track the car/autox at some point, I don't want to have to reconfigure the rear end/brake set-up all over again due to problems with the flanged end type set-up. Brake knock back is definitely something I don't want to deal with.

I know I want to stay with the same Baer brake set-up as the front, which I think they only offer 13" & 14" rotors so I'm not sure how much this will limit my choices. I am interested in the "line lock" solenoid option for a parking brake, as long as there aren't any concerns as pointed out above?

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

Jay offered some excellent, objective advice. Love it.

Ron Myers has a similar semi-floater rear end housing utilizing the C6 bearing/hub ends & we're using it in an offset 3-link install. I like it. I don't know what it costs, but it puts better bearings on the outer ends of the housing for safety reasons. While they're not as heavy duty as the bearings in floater ends, they are a nice step up from the regular roller bearings in 12-Bolts & 9" Fords. Plus they only require occasional inspection for play (wear) & basically no maintenance.

For ultimate safety and the elimination of any brake knock back, a full floating rear end is tops. They use two opposing tapered roller bearings inside a beefy hub that are rated over 2000# each for thrust load. Most of the hard runners in autocross and/or track days have gone this route, or want to. Surprisingly, the cost is a not a lot more when compared to buying a flange axle housing. A complete Speedway Engineering floater rear end housing with axles, hubs, drive plates, bearings, studs, etc is $1299. This is does not include the 3rd member. Moser & Currie offer them for less, but I'm not a fan of the components they use. But if you're on a super tight budget, a complete floater from them is around $950 & better than going with a flange axle & single roller bearing.

Rear brakes were a challenge, but no more. Speedway, Moser & Currie all offer brakes and/or mounts installed ... but only up 12.19" rotors & no parking brake. Wilwood offers a nice street kit for the Speedway Mod-Lite Floater with 12.88" x .81" rotors & parking brakes. These do mount closer out to the wheel for appearance sake. The standard caliper only has 1.96" piston area, but can be upgraded to 2.46" piston area for no charge (requires the thicker pad). The rotor is the medium duty GT version and can not be upgraded to the Spec-37. So think "medium duty" here. I feel it is an excellent brake package for most Pro-Touring cars running autocross often & only occasional track days.

For my clients with a higher priority on performance, we don't run parking brakes for several key reasons.
#1 is they add a LOT of weight in exactly the wrong place ... as the parking brake hat/drum is cast iron ... out at the end of the axle housing. For those that are not familiar with the unsprung weight concept on solid axles, lighter components out on the end of the axle allow the shocks & suspension to respond quicker = more grip. Heavier components out on the end of the axle make the shocks & suspension respond slower = less grip.
#2 is the internal drum style parking brake creates additional friction, drag and heat that we don't want on a performance vehicle.

A trick my clients do, instead of running a parking brake, is to install a drag race style "line lock" solenoid in the brake line (front or rear - doesn't matter) with a regular switch instead of a momentary switch. When the car is parked & the engine if off, they simply leave the car in 1st gear (or park for autos) and the car isn't going to roll away. But they like to let the engine warm up at times ... so they start the car, put it in neutral ... press the brake pedal to apply brake pressure & flip the switch. Viola ... brakes are on. Then they can get out & let the engine run & warm up.

So I created brake kits for floater rear ends that don't have parking brakes, but do use rear racing brake parts like big, race quality brake rotors & calipers. The most common package uses a 13.06" x 1.25" Wilwood Spec-37 rotor and 4-piston Superlite caliper with either 2.46" or 3.00" piston area for serious braking force. These do place the caliper & rotor farther inward, so the appearance doesn't match the fronts. I plan to offer floater brake packages with 14.00" x 1.25" rotors and Aerolite 4P calipers once Wilwood offers the Aerolite 4P in a piston area in the 2.46"-3.00" range.

------------------------------------------------

Regardless of brand, version or source, I personally hope everyone driving their cars hard in autocross & track days go the floater route for both safety sake & the elimination of brake knock back ... which can also be a safety issue.

[71RS/SS396]

If you want to stay with the Baer brakes they also make a floater option that has parking brake provisions and uses a aluminum backing plate so it doesn't add a bunch of additional weight. if you don't want to deal with pad knockback or leaks, go with a floater and be done with it. I've been using the Baer floater in my car for 4 years now and have had zero issues with it.
I would recommend a tru-trac for your intended use, I tried using the wave-trac initially in my car and liked the way the car turned with it, but it just wasn't very durable.

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by 71RS/SS396

If you want to stay with the Baer brakes they also make a floater option that has parking brake provisions and uses a aluminum backing plate so it doesn't add a bunch of additional weight. if you don't want to deal with pad knockback or leaks, go with a floater and be done with it. I've been using the Baer floater in my car for 4 years now and have had zero issues with it.
I would recommend a tru-trac for your intended use, I tried using the wave-trac initially in my car and liked the way the car turned with it, but it just wasn't very durable.

Tim, great to hear some feedback from a guy running the Baer floater hard. I'm a Baer dealer but didn't know anyone running their floater. Did you have a local shop cut & weld the Baer ends on for you?

[71RS/SS396]

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

Tim, great to hear some feedback from a guy running the Baer floater hard. I'm a Baer dealer but didn't know anyone running their floater. Did you have a local shop cut & weld the Baer ends on for you?

Ron, I had DSE weld the ends on since they're relatively local to me.

[Nativefx]

Originally Posted by 71RS/SS396

If you want to stay with the Baer brakes they also make a floater option that has parking brake provisions and uses a aluminum backing plate so it doesn't add a bunch of additional weight. if you don't want to deal with pad knockback or leaks, go with a floater and be done with it. I've been using the Baer floater in my car for 4 years now and have had zero issues with it.
I would recommend a tru-trac for your intended use, I tried using the wave-trac initially in my car and liked the way the car turned with it, but it just wasn't very durable.

Tim, I had tried looking at the Baer website to determine what their floater option incorporated but they didn't offer a lot of information. Is theirs a system similar to the setup Jay has come up with? I believe he mentioned in his first post the Baer setup, but I didn't know anything about it or how it compared to a full floater design as it looks like it doesn't move the brakes very far inward to reduce the amount of weight on the ends.

All of these could be viable options for me, and I'm just trying to get as much info as possible. I was hopeful it would be from people who have some real world experience with different setups, such as you. I just hadn't every seen any mention of anyone using Baer's floater setup, even though it seems its been out for some time? Appreciate yours and everyone else's input to hopefully help guide me in the "right" direction!

[71RS/SS396]

Originally Posted by Nativefx

Tim, I had tried looking at the Baer website to determine what their floater option incorporated but they didn't offer a lot of information. Is theirs a system similar to the setup Jay has come up with? I believe he mentioned in his first post the Baer setup, but I didn't know anything about it or how it compared to a full floater design as it looks like it doesn't move the brakes very far inward to reduce the amount of weight on the ends.

All of these could be viable options for me, and I'm just trying to get as much info as possible. I was hopeful it would be from people who have some real world experience with different setups, such as you. I just hadn't every seen any mention of anyone using Baer's floater setup, even though it seems its been out for some time? Appreciate yours and everyone else's input to hopefully help guide me in the "right" direction!

The Baer floater moves the brakes more than an inch inboard. When I converted my wife's first gen I had to reclocked the calipers so they were forward of axle centerline to keep them from crashing into the frame when the suspension was at full articulation. You may or may not have to do this depending on the width of your housing, her car has a very deep dish on the wheels. As far as the parking brake... it's NOT an emergency brake but I certainly wouldn't have any problem using it to park the car on a incline and having it hold fine, it utilizes a drum inside the floater hub and will work as well as any other parking brake that comes with most aftermarket brake kits.

As far as maintenance goes.... I use the seals-it inner seals so my bearings are greased just like the old school front wheel bearings that were commonplace on cars for decades. I simply repack them when I replace worn out rotors... the grease and bearings look fine every time.