Where is the line, and have I crossed it?

[CJD Automotive]

As I continue putting my car together for it's second go round, I'm finding myself crossing lines I drew for myself years ago, but have good arguments for each, or not. Opinions wanted.

This was primarily going to be street car that I could compete with. That meant no door bars on the cage, reclining seats, etc. I am now questioning the street driver aspect. Exactly where do you really street drive your car? Obviously not Walmart! or anywhere else you can't see it the entire time your away from it, so what, a local car show? Sonic? Maybe just a cruise? I can still do that with door bars and full containment seats. With custom inserts, those seats can be very comfy for the limited amount of time that I would actually "street drive". So I've decided to upgrade the cage to current NASA/IMSA spec. I feel the full containment seat is required for a full cage that is street driven (keeping your head from banging the jungle jim in a street accident) and highly recommended on the track. Now this begs the question I'm wrestling with. Is it a street car or race car? This is not a tube chassis car, still retains the stock floor and firewall, and will still have a complete interior, glass, and A/C (it's Florida and wouldn't have a car without it!), so does that push me back to street car? I realize it's just a word, but to me, a race car is purpose built, well, to race...I don't want a race car, I want a street car, with sound insulation, A/C, stereo, etc...that can also be a race car! I understand the compromise keeps it from achieving either of these goals to it's full potential, but does adding the safety aspects of a race car to my street car, make it a race car???

[ironworks]

The answer lies in what you "REALLY" intend to use it for. If you have never raced before a full on race car might not end up getting used quite like you hoped. But a street car might not be enough.

I don't like rollcages in street cars that you and your passengers don't wear 5 point seats all the time. In a car with a cage you could hit your head on the rollcage in a 30 mph accident and be dead pretty easy. And know one ever puts their seat belt on like they should every time in a race car while on the street.

As long as you enjoy it and can afford to do what ever you want, by all means go right ahead. As long as your cool with how ever it ends up getting used and had fun doing it. Go right ahead. This hobby is supposed to be fun.

[SSLance]

Oh man... I have fought this same fight over and over and over again with my car. Not quite at your level Craig but still the same fight.

Thankfully, I have never repainted my car...so it already has it's share of exterior bumps and bruises. This takes me out of the "don't let it out of my site" camp. I still worry about theft though, so I'm careful where and for how long I leave it sit unattended.

That said, I've put over 2,000 miles on mine already this year. Most of it spent running errands, chauffeuring the wife around on weekends, trips to the Post Office, grocery store etc and some just flat out joy riding and testing runs. I like driving this car, I've tried hard to keep it very street friendly so far.

The forward cage bars and containment seat is the line I believe. At this point, one needs to be wearing a helmet in the driver seat which won't happen on street duty. I think you can still qualify for everything up to wheel to wheel racing without the forward upper cage bars and I believe Ron has a nice containment seat that the upper head supports remove to make it more street friendly. If you want to drive your car on the street, I'd look at those two options. Not being able to see around a full containment seat on the street would be a deal killer for me.

My Recaros are pretty comfy once in them but climbing back out of them is a bit of a pain. They are about as "race seat" as I'd go in a street car. Racetech has some nice very similar seats that I looked hard and long at. As long as your door bars aren't higher than the sides of your race seat, they shouldn't be an issue either.

I'll just add one more thing... I've thought about adding both safety and track performance options that I could also unbolt for street driving, but in reality...you won't take the time to install and then uninstall them for each track event. You'll most likely just put them in and leave them in so consider that. The extreme that I go is I'll stow my 5 point harnesses away when on street and use my factory 3 point belts for restraints. That and some shock adjustments are all I make when switching to race mode.

Hope that helps...

[CJD Automotive]

Originally Posted by ironworks

The answer lies in what you "REALLY" intend to use it for. If you have never raced before a full on race car might not end up getting used quite like you hoped. But a street car might not be enough.

I set my "rules" based on my previous street car that became a stripped out, race car. I never want to have that much money in something again that had to be trailered to a race track to be driven. Trying to find that perfect blend of street and track car!

[ironworks]

Originally Posted by CJD Automotive

I set my "rules" based on my previous street car that became a stripped out, race car. I never want to have that much money in something again that had to be trailered to a race track to be driven. Trying to find that perfect blend of street and track car!

With a previous car, you know what your getting into. I have built a few race cars I don't have the time or the man power to go race and have enough pit support with work and family life. So I just sold them all a few months ago to maybe build a race car I can hang a license plate on that I can still drive fast in the dirt.

[CJD Automotive]

Originally Posted by SSLance

The forward cage bars and containment seat is the line I believe. At this point, one needs to be wearing a helmet in the driver seat which won't happen on street duty.

Well, crap, I'm 100% committed on these aspects for safety because of the speeds this car can run. So your calling it race car....

Originally Posted by SSLance

...not being able to see around a full containment seat on the street would be a deal killer for me.

Yep, I agree. I talked with Butler Seats, and he tells me that if the containment is in your line of sight, it's not designed for you. I'm thinking of having a shorter halo (like a GTLM car) for street and AutoX, and a standard for road course. I think the padded halo, even the shorter one, is a required necessity for a caged car on the street. Killing two birds with one stone when I attend Ron's workshop in Concord next month. Stopping by Butler to get measured and have seats made...yep seats. My wife wants to run Cam-T and local AutoX. Then just swap seats side to side.

Originally Posted by SSLance

..but in reality...you won't take the time to install and then uninstall them for each track event. You'll most likely just put them in and leave them in so consider that.

Yeah, that's why I decided to just do the full cage. Door bars are about seat bolster height, pretty much a GTLM cage.
Wearing the harness may be the only compromise to being a race car...just have to make sure I can reach the cup holder when belted in!

[SSLance]

If you must have the forward upper cage bars, I'd just work extra diligently about tucking them as high and tight as possible. And pad them with the good stuff. The Finch and Tucker 2nd Gen Camaros both have full cages in them that you almost can't see they are so tight, same with the Viking Shocks F Body... Then set the seats as low as you possibly can.

Street driving with a 5 point harness sucks, there is no doubt about it. I tried it once and bailed on the idea. I imagine it would be even worse with a containment seat, between not being able to move at all plus not being able to see to the sides or the rear...that just isn't any fun (or safe) at all to me.

Your car didn't come with factory shoulder harnesses right? If there was any way to graft a set of factory style 3 point belts into your car, I'd seriously look into it (if they will work with your seats that is).

Otherwise, it sounds like you are going to end up with a race car with license plates...that you have to suit up and strap completely into for that trip to the grocery store. Not completely track restrictive but not the most fun street adaptive either. Just be safe mixing components.

[CJD Automotive]

Thanks Lance, I think....your not telling me what I want to hear!!

I already have a cage in the car, just adding the bars to make it IMSA/SCCA legal.

I tucked the forward bars way up in there! Can't even see it from the side.

[SSLance]

Originally Posted by CJD Automotive

I already have a cage in the car, just adding the bars to make it IMSA/SCCA legal.

Are you talking about Wheel to Wheel legal? Surely you do not plan on club racing this car...do you?

From what I understand, my 4 point bar is all that is needed to do any IMSA/SCCA time trial, hill climbs or solo trial events. The door bars are only necessary once you get to wheel to wheel events.

Your cage bars look great, that's the only way to do them on a street car in my opinion.

[BMR Sales]

Craig, been there, done that a few times.

I personally have nothing against 5 Pt Belts and I like them and you get used to them.

Your cage is tucked away from you - are you able to get padding around the bars?