Wayne Dues C4 front sub-frame

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I have fixed a few in the past. Can you post a picture?

You either had to raise the rack or modify the steering arm to get the bump steer readings better.

this was a shot of the mule. I believe it has been changed since then too. Not sure.

Vince

[ProdigyCustoms]

We moved the rack down and move the lower control arm brackets down and made steering arms and use bump steer correcters also. Motor was still high though. And bump steer is still in it.

Looks like Mark made diffferent steering arms also.

[XcYZ]

I agree with having to raise the rack. I put a Longacre bumpsteer gauge on my old WD subframe and it wasn't good (don't remember the range at +2, -2), but the only way to reduce it was to use the Baer Tracker spacers and move the steering arm pivot point lower. But... because the Baer Trackers are so crazy huge in diameter, I couldn't got as low as needed because they would hit the LCA at full lock. The right fix would be to raise the rack. The other issue I had was ackerman. It was basically nuetral at lock, but the only time I noticed it was when I was backing out of a parking spot - low speed, full lock, in reverse. It felt like it wanted to drag the inside tire a little.

My solution was to switch to a DSE subframe.

[clay69camaro]

Not sure on what kind of angles will help the best but here are a few pics.

Nothing is bolted in real tight, it's all just mocked up right now. I have to find the directions again but I think all the fabrication to make everything work has been done already.
If more fab is needed that will be to address the bump steer issues.

[Z06vette]

I have a C4 WD as well. Mine looks similar, but yours appears to be newer. I dont have the extra bracing from the motor mount perches up to the suspension mount. Your control arms look different as well. Have you thought about subframe connectors? I was going to use the hotchkis ones, but they wont work without modifying them. The boxed end frame rails really limit what you can use since most of them insert into the end of the frame rail. I'm just going to run the DSE solid mounts for now until the car is done. Mine is mainly a street car , the only track time it will see is at the drag strip a few times a year. What motor you running?
Scott

[clay69camaro]

I want mine to be mainly a track car, that I can terrorize my community with from time to time haha.

I'm planning on building a 434 small block. I bought some GMPP 18 degree heads a few years back with a ton of quality parts for my top end. So now I've just got to get to a point where I can afford to buy the short block.

As for subframe connectors... Haven't put much thought into them yet. I have to replace so much sheetmetal. One rear frame rails is bent from an accident before I bought the car, so I have to figure out what I'll do about that.

I feel lost in my build sometimes. like I might be doing some stuff backwards haha

[ProdigyCustoms]

Originally Posted by clay69camaro

I want mine to be mainly a track car, that I can terrorize my community with from time to time haha.

I am going to be blunt, as if I have not all ready! You are in a bad marriage to this subframe.

If your going to build a track car, you need to not screw with this thing. On a track car suspension is NOT the area to cheat. It is like taking a knife to a gun fight and trying to sharpen both edges of the knife instead of one side to make it better. You still lose.

I realize budget plays into these decisions. And i know it is hard to give up on something you felt so strong about at the beginning. And I am the worlds biggest fan of get it done and drive it instead of stressing over the best parts and not finishing it. I gave Clay that very advice. But he is not building a track car either!

If it were me and I had bent rear rails that had to be replaced. I would buy a AME rear clip and a front subframe to match. Then again, depending on where the rails are bent, it might all be superficial and not play into any of the suspension mounting depending what rear suspension you pick. If the rails are bent behind the mounting points you could consider any system and I would buy that companies front kit to match.

If you get a few grand for that WD frame, you net cost difference to a quality piece is a few grand.

Otherwise I just see a lot of disappointment and regret in your future if you stay in this bad marriage to this WD subframe.

[GregWeld]

Well said Frank.

[clay69camaro]

I just don't understand how it worked on the mule, but it can't work for me.

As of right now buying a new sub-frame is 100% not an option.

I'm moving over the summer and need the car to be able to roll. Maybe after I get settled in I'll be able to get it sold, break even since I bought it used too.

Thank you though, probably will give you a call and figure out what I need for my build before I buy next time.

Mark one up for lack of experience.

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by clay69camaro

I just don't understand how it worked on the mule, but it can't work for me.

As of right now buying a new sub-frame is 100% not an option.

I'm moving over the summer and need the car to be able to roll. Maybe after I get settled in I'll be able to get it sold, break even since I bought it used too.

Thank you though, probably will give you a call and figure out what I need for my build before I buy next time.

Mark one up for lack of experience.

It can be made to work, just depends on how much work and money you want to spend to make it work. I sent Mark an e-mail, I'll let you know what he says......

I do know I rode in the Mule on a road course with Mark driving and the car was very stable and very fast. I remember Mark saying he was happy with how it worked on the track. I'm not saying it's the best way to go subframe-wise, but I think you can make it work plenty well to have fun with since you already own it and cannot afford to buy something else.