OK time for a new rear end suggestions

[71RS/SS396]

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

Tim, great to hear some feedback from a guy running the Baer floater hard. I'm a Baer dealer but didn't know anyone running their floater. Did you have a local shop cut & weld the Baer ends on for you?

Ron, I had DSE weld the ends on since they're relatively local to me.

[Nativefx]

Originally Posted by JSM

Yes, does get a little complex. And I will concur with the incredibly knowledgeable Ron (for what its worth cuz Im nobody ) in that a "traditional" full floater (Moser, Speedway, etc.) is hands down a stronger/lighter system simply due to the dual tapered bearing design and its being lighter mainly due to its lacking an emergency brake system.
BUT,,, is GM's/SKF's C6 ZR1 or C7 hub like I utilize in my offering strong enough? Mark Steilow seams to think/prove so...

And although it does add some pounds for adding the luxury of having an actual emergency brake (not park brake, but an actual emergency brake,,,, BIG difference), I personally would say weight well added to gain the benefits/street-ability/track performance at the level of a C6 Corvette!

With that said, I have been a BIG fan of dual tapered bearing designs for years and have quite a bit of hands on experience with them as well, and unquestionably are strong/light/great/proven AND are the best choice for "Track Cars" that spend most of their time at tracks,,,, BUT lack what is required for a "true" street car/daily driver IMO.

Although you can add spot calipers, line locks, valves, etc. NONE of these are considered an emergency brake and will do nothing for you should you have a brake failure while actually driving/racing and are not really a street/daily driver solution IMO. I think the word is "compromise" that would be appropriate when making the decision which is best for your car.

Jay

Jay, I'm not sure I understand the difference between an emergency brake and a park brake? I'm assuming either could be attached to work with the stock pedal, which is why I don't understand the benefit of one over the other?

Wasn't the true floater designed to overcome the stesses placed on single bearings, especially when added load due to cornering? That and problems with the flange ends typically leaking? So the floater moves weight inward and off the very ends of the rearend, while also utilizing duel tapered bearings. So what due they lack for the street car/daily driver?

Sorry for all the questions, as i said I don't know a lot about this and have just been trying to read as much as possible to make sure I make the right choice the first time in order to alleviate any problems in the future.

thanks

[Nativefx]

Originally Posted by 71RS/SS396

If you want to stay with the Baer brakes they also make a floater option that has parking brake provisions and uses a aluminum backing plate so it doesn't add a bunch of additional weight. if you don't want to deal with pad knockback or leaks, go with a floater and be done with it. I've been using the Baer floater in my car for 4 years now and have had zero issues with it.
I would recommend a tru-trac for your intended use, I tried using the wave-trac initially in my car and liked the way the car turned with it, but it just wasn't very durable.

Tim, I had tried looking at the Baer website to determine what their floater option incorporated but they didn't offer a lot of information. Is theirs a system similar to the setup Jay has come up with? I believe he mentioned in his first post the Baer setup, but I didn't know anything about it or how it compared to a full floater design as it looks like it doesn't move the brakes very far inward to reduce the amount of weight on the ends.

All of these could be viable options for me, and I'm just trying to get as much info as possible. I was hopeful it would be from people who have some real world experience with different setups, such as you. I just hadn't every seen any mention of anyone using Baer's floater setup, even though it seems its been out for some time? Appreciate yours and everyone else's input to hopefully help guide me in the "right" direction!

[MillerBuilt]

Originally Posted by Nativefx

Jay, I'm not sure I understand the difference between an emergency brake and a park brake? I'm assuming either could be attached to work with the stock pedal, which is why I don't understand the benefit of one over the other?

Wasn't the true floater designed to overcome the stesses placed on single bearings, especially when added load due to cornering? That and problems with the flange ends typically leaking? So the floater moves weight inward and off the very ends of the rearend, while also utilizing duel tapered bearings. So what due they lack for the street car/daily driver?

Sorry for all the questions, as i said I don't know a lot about this and have just been trying to read as much as possible to make sure I make the right choice the first time in order to alleviate any problems in the future.

thanks

No problem on the questions.

A parking brake is not intended for anything but being applied once the car is parked and was not designed to be applied at speed or problems will most likely occur, whereas an actual e-brake can be used at speed in an "emergency" hence the name e-brake.

Items like "spot calipers", "line locks", "in-line ball valves", etc. that are sometimes used on "traditional" full floaters to overcome their street ability shortfall, will only work after the car is at a complete stop, and are mostly fine for the "letting the car warm up stuff" at the track, but would you trust your car on a sloped road with these set-ups, not to mention for any length of time? Will your car be where you left it when you get back? Personally I would not trust the above mentioned in a car that is daily driven and that usually finds itself in scenarios/locations that require a proven set-up that was actually designed/rated to hold your car in the same location it was originally parked...

I know some people may disagree because perhaps they have one of these full floaters outfitted with one of these devices, but for those people,,, I bet if I asked you to take your 100+ thousand dollar car and park it on a steep incline road for 24hrs that you would most likely think twice as these devices are not rated/intended for this and would be an uncertain outcome....

Now with that said there ARE "parking brakes" that will hold on steep incline/declines for periods of time, these types would be like the ones offered in most all Wilwood, Baer, etc. big brake kits. But these are actual brake in drum set-ups similar (but not the same) to the C5/6 e-brake.
With the exception of Baer's full floater, and mine, there are no other floaters that actually incorporate a legit parking/e-brake. (I did not forget the Wilwood offering for the Mod-lite hub, but this .81" rotor would see its death most likely after one track day with aggressive driving so I am not counting).

I have installed on traditional full floaters what I would consider some of the best spot calipers available (Ipsco), and are still questionable in daily driven scenarios IMO. I have also ran many line locks in my day and would rather not trust my car to it based on a daily driver that finds itself in many scenarios that require a full proof parking-brake/e-brake... track in the pits,,, yes,,,, inclined/declined roads in the real world,,, NO.

A floater actually carries the weight of the car out at the hub, and no longer burdens the axle/bearing/seal from torsional flex as a semi-floater does.

It is not that you cannot run a "traditional" style floater on the street because many do. When I referred to a traditional full floater as not being street friendly it was in comparison to my set-up that requires virtually no maintenance and incorporates an e-brake which makes this a very user/street friendly set-up in comparison to most all traditional floaters.

So to recap, IMO if the floater (any ones floater), does not utilize an actual in drum parking brake or even better, an actual e-brake, then I would not consider it a street driven/daily driver set-up that you can fully trust.

Jay

[Ron Sutton]

I concur with Jay on the parking brake. The line lock is a track car trick to eliminate the parking brake weight & friction.

If you want to have a parking brake and run Baer brakes ... I think you can achieve that with eithers Jays C6 end floater or the Baer floater. That at least narrows it down for you.

Best wishes.

[Nativefx]

Originally Posted by JSM

BUT,,, is GM's/SKF's C6 ZR1 or C7 hub like I utilize in my offering strong enough? Mark Stielow seams to think/prove so...

Jay, do you happen to know of a link that you could post up about Mark Stielow's thoughts on the setup your talking about? I'd like to read up more about it and his thoughts if he's been running it for a while.

[Nativefx]

Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on The GMR parking brake?

http://thegmr.com/?page_id=1706

This may offer additional options I'm guessing? Like I said, I'm really looking to try and learn as much as possible before spending money and worrying about whether I made the right choice?

[71RS/SS396]

Originally Posted by Nativefx

Tim, I had tried looking at the Baer website to determine what their floater option incorporated but they didn't offer a lot of information. Is theirs a system similar to the setup Jay has come up with? I believe he mentioned in his first post the Baer setup, but I didn't know anything about it or how it compared to a full floater design as it looks like it doesn't move the brakes very far inward to reduce the amount of weight on the ends.

All of these could be viable options for me, and I'm just trying to get as much info as possible. I was hopeful it would be from people who have some real world experience with different setups, such as you. I just hadn't every seen any mention of anyone using Baer's floater setup, even though it seems its been out for some time? Appreciate yours and everyone else's input to hopefully help guide me in the "right" direction!

The Baer floater moves the brakes more than an inch inboard. When I converted my wife's first gen I had to reclocked the calipers so they were forward of axle centerline to keep them from crashing into the frame when the suspension was at full articulation. You may or may not have to do this depending on the width of your housing, her car has a very deep dish on the wheels. As far as the parking brake... it's NOT an emergency brake but I certainly wouldn't have any problem using it to park the car on a incline and having it hold fine, it utilizes a drum inside the floater hub and will work as well as any other parking brake that comes with most aftermarket brake kits.

As far as maintenance goes.... I use the seals-it inner seals so my bearings are greased just like the old school front wheel bearings that were commonplace on cars for decades. I simply repack them when I replace worn out rotors... the grease and bearings look fine every time.

[MillerBuilt]

Originally Posted by Nativefx

Jay, do you happen to know of a link that you could post up about Mark Stielow's thoughts on the setup your talking about? I'd like to read up more about it and his thoughts if he's been running it for a while.

Click here and is about the fourth post down #694 https://lateral-g.net/forums/show...=39584&page=70

Originally Posted by Nativefx

Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on The GMR parking brake?

http://thegmr.com/?page_id=1706

This may offer additional options I'm guessing? Like I said, I'm really looking to try and learn as much as possible before spending money and worrying about whether I made the right choice?

That spot caliper is the one that I mentioned in my earlier post and "Ipsco" makes them. Just FYI. That was a solution that I discovered for GMR customers when I was involved with The GMR. Customers loved the full floater "movement" when GMR/I introduced it years ago, BUT like you, they all wanted a parking brake since they were also running on the street and this would be needed and was one of the solutions I came up with. Will it hold a parked car? Sure will,,, on a steep incline/decline,,,, nope. Will it work in an emergency type situation? Nope, it will not. This is however a great solution for a traditional full floater that will spend most its life at the track and needs something to hold it in place while it warms up.... PLUS you will need a weld-on bracket to locate it onto your axle tube which again makes this a fabricator type item/install of which I actually do have the brackets for.... as you will see by the time you purchase these spot calipers, brackets to weld to the axle tube to hold them, pay a fabricator to install,,,,, you will have spent more than the actual entire C6 Corvette E-brake set-up that works flawlessly, and is proven, and is available at your local GM dealer or online parts stores....

Not just cuz its mine, but if a guy told you he had a set-up that reaped the benefits of a traditional full floater, required basically zero maintenance, and incorporated an actual Emergency Brake (not park brake), and you could run the brake manufacture of your choice,,,, wouldn't this pretty much fit the bill? What more could you want? Just ask, maybe it does it too


Jay

[MillerBuilt]

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

I concur with Jay on the parking brake. The line lock is a track car trick to eliminate the parking brake weight & friction.

If you want to have a parking brake and run Baer brakes ... I think you can achieve that with eithers Jays C6 end floater or the Baer floater. That at least narrows it down for you.

Best wishes.

Ron, just outa curiosity. I was wondering what one of the Speedway Floater Hub set-ups weighs that you run on your track cars? I am curious as to what the actual weight savings is.

Snout -
Hub (steel or aluminum? -
Bearings/Races -
Drive Plate (I assume you run steel) -
Studs -
Caliper Brackets/gussets) -

Also if you wouldn't mind?

Rotor Adaptor (steel or Aluminum?) -
Rotor 13"x1.25" -

Jay