At A crossroads on whether or not to go Hydraboost - Lateral-g Forums

rogue · #1 06-01-2009, 06:13 PM

My car is a non power steering car with 13" Brakes up front and 12" Brakes in the rear. Usual Suspect conversion kits from Ricks...

I'm not getting enough power from the booster to the brakes and cannot get the car to lock up the tires unless I pump up a lot of pressure before a hard brake....

Recently saw that crash at the autocross of the car that crashed due to the engine stalling and hydroboost failing and it got me thinking. I'm going to get some vacuum readings off my stock zz502 this weekend and see if I'm getting enough vacuum to run a booster.

If I have enough Vacuum should I just run a dual diaphram 8" Booster or should I bite the bullet and do a hydraboost setup and add power steering as well...

$1800 or so vs $350 or so... Pretty big price difference.

I've heard from a few people the zz502 doesn't put out much vacuum. Will see on saturday.

XLexusTech · #2 06-01-2009, 06:35 PM

x2 on the feeling I got after seeing that Nova smashed like that. Made me think Manual was the say to go.

Not made any choices yet but it sure made me step back and think..

**XcYZ** · #3 06-01-2009, 06:55 PM

The engine died and the assist didn't work? Something is wrong there... the nitrogen reserve cylinder accumulates and stores pressure so if you lose power steering you would still have some assist.

Several years ago when I had my car at the strip with the 434, it died as I went through the lights. I had 3 full stabs at the brakes with power assist with the engine off (going about 120mph), after that I just had a hard pedal.

rogue · #4 06-01-2009, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XcYZ

The engine died and the assist didn't work? Something is wrong there... the nitrogen reserve cylinder accumulates and stores pressure so if you lose power steering you would still have some assist.

Several years ago when I had my car at the strip with the 434, it died as I went through the lights. I had 3 full stabs at the brakes with power assist with the engine off (going about 120mph), after that I just had a hard pedal.

Thats the theory behind the system...

from the autocross thread:

https://lateral-g.net/forums/show...19&postcount=1

My problem is, my car doesn't have power steering so I'd have to add power steering pump, all bracketry, just for the hydroboost. And at that point, I might as well add Power Steering and a 12:1 ratio box. It adds up pretty quick. $2000 just to lock up my brakes, lose some power, and add more things that can fail at the track.

Or just find a booster that works for $300 and call it a day.

Would I be able to run a manual master with my OEM style calipers?

Fronts:

Rears:

I just want a nice predictable solid pedal, I don't care if it requires some strength because I'm a big guy, but I need full lock up and I need to rely on my brakes on track days.

For now I baby the car because the brakes are the weak link...

Vegas69 · #5 06-01-2009, 08:33 PM

ZZ502 should put out enough vacuum for power brakes. That's a teeny little cam in that thing.

rogue · #6 06-01-2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegas69

ZZ502 should put out enough vacuum for power brakes. That's a teeny little cam in that thing.

thats another part of the equation. I doubt the cam in the motor will stay stock for much longer. I'll eventually be doing heads cam/intake manifold...

Long term I suppose a hydroboost/electric booster setup would be best, I'm just having a hard time dropping the money on it when I'd rather use it on track days...

**GregWeld** · #7 06-01-2009, 09:12 PM

Race cars don't use power brakes...

I run big azz Baer discs all around - a Wilwood 7/8" Master cylinder - 6:1 pedal ratio - and I'll throw your azz thru the front window on a hard stop... no need for power anything in my book.

My 56 Nomad is heavy at 4023 lbs... and the brakes work GREAT! 3/16" SS lines... a Wilwood manual adjustable proportioning valve to the rears...

BUT if I ever wanted power brakes - I'd be all over the Hydroboost system... it's just that it's not necessary.

**GregWeld** · #8 06-01-2009, 09:18 PM

Another thought -- I installed (helped install) an ELECTRIC hydoboost system on my brother in laws blown 69 Camaro --- he has Wilwood disc all around - the system worked great - right up until the electric boost motor quit working... it went back to the factory etc - I finally told him (the BIL) lets just rip all that crap outta here and install a nice 7/8" Wilwood master and be done with it... he's never looked back or regretted it. My SISTER loves the brakes.. if she can stop the car - any 'guy' can!

Blake Foster · #9 06-01-2009, 09:50 PM

What is wrong with manual brakes?
F1 indy Nascar IMSA = manual brakes. what makes you think you need power brakes?

if the pedel ratio and MC sizing is correct you will be more than happy with manual brakes.
the black Camaro, Green Nova, Beaumont, Speed Tech Camaro, My Camaro ALL have manual brakes.
and there are about 3 sizes of masters to work with so at WORST you will spend 500 $ if you don't get it right the first or second time.

just my thoughts

**XcYZ** · #10 06-02-2009, 05:31 AM

I'm sure manual brakes work great on a lighter car, all the race cars I've ever been around have manual brakes and work great... BUT... those are light cars. That 69 Chevelle that Jody and I drove on Power Tour a few years ago had manual brakes. It was a complete Wilwood system with the correct MC bore size... and they sucked. They came around slightly after the 1500 miles we put on it, but they never inspired confidence. Because of that experience, I will never have manual brakes on a street car.