FINALLY!! Headers for LSX+DSE combination

[thedude327]

Originally Posted by Bowtieracing

Look at what DSE is going to release soon

Say aren't those............Marmon flanges and adapter clamps?

Paul

[ohcbird]

2300+ sounds expensive, and it is, but it isn't completely out in space... break it down & compare against some other headers:

1. Stainless always adds some coin, esp if you have priced good 304/306 lately.
2. If those are REAL merge collectors (which I'm sure they are), not just pieces that look like them, that adds a good 4-500 retail. Don't believe me? contact SPD or Burns Stainless.
3. The V-band (Marmon) clamps & flanges aren't cheap, either.

OK- that may not sound like $2300+ worth of justification, but you gotta pay to play.

[JamesJ]

The hard part is room, Even ATS headers are not really the best example of a TRY-Y here is a set that are used in nascar

[Bowtieracing]

That ATS flange is like piece of art

[chicane]

Originally Posted by JamesJ

The hard part is room, Even ATS headers are not really the best example of a TRY-Y here is a set that are used in nascar

I am guessing that is an assumption ??

The ATS headers were designed by Burns from his "X-Design" program... so I am wondering how you have come to the conclusion that they are not a good example for a Try-y ?? Is it because they don't look like the SB2 headers shown in your picture ?? Is everything NASCAR picture perfect and the "example" for all to follow ??

uhm... no.

Mind you that the headers shown in your picture are for an engine that basically lives between seven and nintyfive hundred RPM... THEY themselves, are not the best example / representation of a Try-y header used in OUR application. You can not compare them as apples to apples in this discussion. Because... it is not and they can not be... apples to apples. Also... "Packaging" does not make a header work... or not work for that matter... it's merely how it fits the application/chassis. But... the primary dia, primary length to its merge... to the secondary dia, secondary length to its merge and then to the collector... is what makes a header 'tuned' for the application. Just because you post a picture of an SB2 seader... and possibly think of it as being a good example... doesn't make it relative to any of this. What you have shown is an excellent example of a Try-y design designed for a sustained high RPM application... which I would also bet, that it makes more broad band torque than that of an equal length header for the same application.

Anyway... don't take any of that personal.


The 'cost' will continue to be a debate. But... looking at the DSE header, what do you see ?? I don't know about you all... but I see >>one piece<< mandrel bent tubes, quality flanges and real merge collectors... in stainless no less. The cost alone of the one piece mandrel bent tubes makes me cringe to say the least. Do you really wonder why they cost so much ?? Well... there's the answer to your question. Uhhh... oh yeah, and they fit into the intended application without isue and/or modification.

Have you ever wondered why the ATS headers are priced where they are ?? Do you have any idea on what it costs for Jack to do his "X-design" and then to actually make a production jig... for just that ?? Not to mention... someone brought up the point in cost of the individual 'merge' collectors themselves. The associated cost quoted above was just for the collector merge(s). Just think... the ATS headers have... SIX... merge collectors in a single set. That is one reason why they cost what they do.

Both the ATS and DSE products discussed here are low production... which means they until they hit a certian 'number' produced... they will need to recoup the delvelopment, material and production costs in its initial offering.

$2230 isnt all that bad for what you are paying for. Other than the O2 bung placement... which can be worked around... that is a damn nice set of tubes for $2230 !

[Flash68]

Wow, a very convincing argument from Chicane. (I love reading your posts, BTW - always informative).

Who dares to counter that? Not me.

I am just glad I scored my full stainless steel stepped headers made for my application (plain ole SBC) off ebay for $750 about two years ago!

Mr Chicane, what is your analysis of these? (1-3/4" stepped to 1-7/8" with 3.5" collector) (sorry for the quick threadjack, but it's sorta related!)

[Bowtieracing]

Originally Posted by chicane

...The 'cost' will continue to be a debate. But... looking at the DSE header, what do you see ?? I don't know about you all... but I see >>one piece<< mandrel bent tubes, quality flanges and real merge collectors... in stainless no less. The cost alone of the one piece mandrel bent tubes makes me cringe to say the least. Do you really wonder why they cost so much ?? Well... there's the answer to your question. Uhhh... oh yeah, and they fit into the intended application without isue and/or modification.....

Well it seem at only real tech head can understood my point on this.. Thanks again Chicane

[customcam]

The quality/materials look great but you have to justify that amount some how, if you can.
Power/torque increase?? no numbers "yet"...??

[Josh@KYTP]

Its inovation, capitolisim, marketing and everything else at its finest. They know people want them. They know people will buy them. Are they high? Isnt everything they sell high? It is and they are for a reason. It works for them.

They are nice headers. No doubt about it. are they out of line? I dont think so. Look at turbo headers. Alot more $$$$. Alot less material.

[WSSix]

Something else I noticed that I don't like, O2 bung placement. It's too close to the merge so you'll be getting too much signal from one cylinder. I haven't seen these in a car so I'm not sure why they have such a short collector on them but ideally, the bung needs to move away more to get a better mix from all cylinders on that bank.