Why are people throwing a minitub and tires and calling it a pro touring?

[chr2002ca]

Originally Posted by DFRESH

I can't believe no one has used the phrase "I know at PT car when I see it" yet.

The evolution of this hobby is likely to see the same trend that happened in Heads Up Drag Racing--I think Blake and Brett touched on it well. Started off with a solid group of guys that gained a great amount of interest over the first couple of years. Competition got stiffer, bigger motors and better suspensions were on deck. Not long after, sponsors started to make their presence known. Then purpose built cars came along--no more 30 mile cruise to somehow validate them as a street car. Different classes--which means you have cars that are outta reach for the normal guy to build and be competitive so they have to put limits on them --cubic inch, power adders, tire sizes, etc. Once you have big name sponsors, the open wheel trailer crowd is the minortiy while toter homes and big rigs with crews become the group that the front part of the pits is reserved for. All that being said, the crowd loves the Pro Street and Outlaw cars--even though they are an easy 150k--and much more to get into. The core group of guys that started out, none of them were able to survive the cost of the evolution and remain competitive.

Not sure how our hobby/sport will follow along this path--but I have to say--if I guage it from the very first Optima event to this most recent one---we are on our way. Not saying it's bad---it is what it is.

I still say build what you like---I, for now, always want to be able to get in my car and drive it--and be able to attend track days and autocrosses. It's still about being with some of the greatest folks around and enjoying our common interests. It's easy to get caught up in all the competitive side, nicest looking, most power, etc--but i am only seeing a handful of people prosper from those things in this hobby/sport. I do, however, want to get a posi and rear disc's--call me a follower if you must. So to the guy that was worried about posting up his build thread, don't cave in because a guy has a different opinion about your suspension or what a PT car is--it will always be in flux--and the majority of people you will interact with at events and get togethers will share your same passion and desire to do more to their cars. Post up your build and join the community---you are bound to meet many great people on here. My wife still jokes with me that Todd, Dave, Rich, Rodger, Greg and lots of others have all been to our house, some of them stay with us when they are in town--and I met them all here on this site. Don't miss out on the good stuff because you have ladder bars---

D

That's dead on the money Doug. I could not agree more.

In the title of the thread, it says "throwing on some tubs". That must be one accurate friggin' throw because last time I looked, putting on tubs is not a simple process. I investigated everything I'd have to cut up and modify to put some on and bailed on that idea. A $300 part with $3000 worth of labor. Then there's all the new rear suspension and gas tank parts to purchase to make use out of them. Not a simple modification. Whoever has done it has earned some pro-touring praise in my book.

[chr2002ca]

Originally Posted by intocarss

Quoted for the truth!!

We're all here sharing the same addiction and this site is our rehab

Actually, some of us may need rehab because of this site.

[geberhard]

Originally Posted by bret

Reminds me of the Pro Street days in the 80's. Those cars were built to emulate a Pro Stock car...with the most visible and tangible change being a set of 15x33 Mickey Thompson tires. Hell, Rick Dobbertin [after building 2 of the most elaborate and hi profile Pro Street cars in the world, built a front wheel drive Grand Am with a big set of Mickeys under the back [leaving it front wheel drive with no other changes], and made several magazine articles!

Our cars are built to emulate a road race car...with the most visible and tangible change being a set of 17-18" wheels. Lots of people just want that "look" and cannot afford/don't want to make further investment in their cars.

Having experienced [and participated in] both movements...the "pro touring" movement is much more sensible [so far]. Our current trend of car building offers much less compromise than the old Pro Street cars. Bigger tires, bigger brakes, bigger suspensions, bigger engines all improve the overall driving experience with [usually] no compromise.

I'm good with all of it. Thank goodness for individualism and the ability to express such!

Bret hit the nail in the head. I agree and there are varying degrees and however the cars are called now or years from now, they are still muscle cars in my book. Fads come and go, what was cool in the 70's differed a lot from what was cool in the 80's and then 90's and today.

It i sa constant evolution, for car freaks, aficionados, gearheads or whatever we call ourselves, there is only one cure and it is the constant evolution. Modifying cars is nothing new and probably will never stop, even when we hit (if ever) flying cars

I speak with several friends that have spent several thousand of dollars (and still ae)building cars and going through phases, and funny enough some that are still mid "pro street" mid builds on their garages (some had breaks, kids, life changing stuff and projects sat).

Funny thing to ponder: High End\high dollar Pro-touring guys, will say, hey your car is not a pro-touring build. A classic car guy will say that I did a sin but chopping an original car into a freak of nature with wheels bigger than original 14 or 15" Yiikesss...

I can care less for what someone calls my car. Build by your own standards, that is what makes each project special. Think outside the box (so outside you can not even see the box anymore Do not follow norms or standards, make it fun, try something new. Someone can say XX percent of cars here are cookie cutters but for us who enjoy the builds and make subtle and a lot of times not so subtle modifications we know how different they are. In the end call it whatever you want, enjoy the build and enjoy the ride. You only live once, if you live good, once is enough

[irishlsxer]

Originally Posted by barrrf

I just stole your line.......Pro Tinkering. Since my Pro TOuring build wont be done for several years - Im going to have to call it, my pro-tinkering build.

I was thinking about starting a build journal on this site. Some of you guys are brutal tho and Im not sure my feeble mind can handle it. Im thinking since none of the really cool suspension or engine stuff wont happen for awhile I'll just stick to keeping the journal on TC.

what about 'am tourers' instead of pro tourers?

[sokoloka]

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal

I'm cool w a street car that's track capable. For now. Sure am glad for the true friends I've made here. My GF can't believe it. I can...

I'm going to have to meet up with some of you guys when I move back to Carlsbad mid-September. Could just be my group of friends but the past 4 years I've been there were tough to find people with thoroughly similar interests and manias.

Look forward to moving back and getting my car done the most!

[byndbad914]

For me, Big Red was the first PT car because I would seriously drive that car on the street daily and it was the first I can recall seeing a brick fly through the air that well. That one car changed how I viewed performance muscle cars to this day. My DD all through my 20s was essentially a race car with two seats and a dash that I managed to put plates on and dealt with the hassling from the local PD regarding exhaust noise. Of course, if they heard it, I probably was getting off easy if they were talking about the noise and not what I was doing at the time to make it

PT is better defined by Mark's series of Camaros, but seriously, if you take a 60s-70s car and put some fat tires all around and lower it down a little to make it look like an old Trans Am racer and at least appear like it would handle better, you are Pro Touring as far as I am concerned. Money shouldn't matter; should be like gifts, the thought is what should count.

Skinny front tires and fat rears = Pro Street
Fat tires all around = Pro Touring

The 66 Nova SS chassis I bought a couple weeks ago I intend to build starting later this year will have 16" wheels for the track - they will be 11.5"/13" wide, but they may be too small in diameter to be PT by many standards

All the other stuff you can bolt/beat/weld on is just a measure of wallet, not intent or love for one type or the other. Most, if not all of us on this forum live in the USA or other "free" countries where we have near complete freedom of expression and ability to make and spend money easily - we've already won the galactic lottery - what we do with that freedom of expression is just how we are spending our winnings if you will. I consider getting to debate something as frivolous as this v. where I am getting my next meal is pretty fortunate... so I don't care about labels all that much.

Now, when N.O.S. (en oh ess) became NAWS - that is a debate worth fighting

[Z10ROD]

naws LOL still cracks me up